On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

CTEK makes a dedicated LiFePO4 charger. Not cheap, but I get some six hours running radio, PowerFLARM, vario, Oudie and transponder on a K2.

My current gen 18v Milwaukee batteries all have on board intelligence and can signal when an issue occurs through flashing lights etc. They are highly protected against fire, shorts etc. The smaller 12v versions do not that I am aware of. The newer M28 batteries, 28 volts with capacities exceeding 40amp hours are coming around the corner. They will be integrated into generators, compressors etc. Exciting new battery tech out there.

This older platform on google groups is not very search friendly, and I was unable to locate much of anything, so I tossed the question out there.

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 10:10:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Just a quick question.
Had a brainstorm the other day, might have hit my head, don't remember, who knows...

What are y'all using for on board power these days?

Last I flew, we were using 6? amp hour gel cells by Hobbico from Tower Hobbies. (The kind that powered the little Powerwheels Jeep your kid/grandkid rode in 20 years ago)

What kind of power capacity are folks using?

I was working my big a$$ Milwaukee 10" chop saw and saw how compact the 18v, 9 amp LiPo was, and how fast it charged on the included rapid charger and got to thinking 1, 2 or 3 of those on a semi-custom mount with built in voltage regulator would be right dandy in these birds, and available at the big orange box store if a replacement is needed in a hurry.
FSC
Just a thought. Please return to your regularly scheduled mayhem.


Like others I'm using two LiFePo4 batteries (10ah K2s). I've measured my current draw (Clearnav, Clearnav vario, Trig T21, Dittel FSG 2T) and it averages 1.26A in flight on a fresh charge. Other than a 1000K flight that lasted 9 hours, I've never had to switch batteries. After 3 years, the currently older K2 still measures about 9.2ah of capacity at full charge.

P3

Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

Makes a lot of sense. And coming back to soaring after a 20 year hiatus, and getting some positive feedback is a pleasant change.

Thanks for that John. I understand the standardization aspect. I am coming out of Schweitzer Iron from back in the day, best ship I have flown was the 1-35. Nothing standard in those birds battery location and mounting.

Hence why I asked. I wasn't sure if the new manufactured sailplanes are still running the old stuff. I thought for sure some upgrades in battery capacity and capability would have occurred in the last 2 decades with the increase load demands of the modern cockpit avionics.


As for the Pipstrel, thanks for that feedback Dave. I appreciate the quick rundown, that's exactly the kind of intel I was looking for. I have a fellow captain at my airline who recently joined the club I belong to, and is expressing the same interest in a self launcher as I, so we are not tied down to any club to soar. We are not competitors, and not record chasers. We just want to go soaring. The reception and attitudes towards new, adult soaring enthusiasts, especially professional pilots, while generally good at the club we belong to, has honestly not been too good at others he and I have both visited over the last few years. I guess I am spoiled having been brought up at Valley Soaring under UH's tutelage.

Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.

On 10/15/20 10:08 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:23:28 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 10/15/20 10:08 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.

A buddy of mine flies an LS4 and puts a rather heavy conglomeration of gel-cells in the top of the tail. Alas he needs that for the weight and balance. That seems common? If not a battery, then a tank of water in the tail. Why don't glider manufacturers include a metal blob inside the tail boom that can be adjusted fore and aft to get your CG where you want it? I imagine something like a long screw with a hand crank. Would need some sort of indicator though, so you'll know what you dialed.

On Thursday, 15 October 2020 at 17:09:37 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea: Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.

So does cutting a hole in the location given

It could be strengthened around the edges of the hole, of course, and that extra structure can go towards the extra weight needed