midair in Bay Area Nov 7

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 10:19:41 PM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
OK...I am ready to get flamed.
I have flown with a PowerFlarm for several years.
False alarms. Searching frantically for aircraft that I just never see or do not exist.
Flying with a group, all with Flarm, and several do not show on my screen because they have carbon fuselages and antennas that are blocked.
Flying head to head with another Flarm aircraft and no display.
Having other pilots inform me that they saw my plane on their screens when I was not flying...multiple times!
The programing and configuration issues are just too much.
My system is updated and confirmed with and by experts.
But, most are not.
For me, it has not been a dependable, reliable, predictable piece of equipment.
My experiences in France have been much better.
My understanding is that those systems are overseen/verified/inspected by aircraft mechanics.
Here in the USA...the Flarm system mostly increases my anxiety and complicates my flying day.
My observation is that the parachute doesn't quite working because it hasn't been repacked, the wing pins are another story but not really apropos. A better solution would be to incorporate some annoying warning message, much like the seat belt warning in cars.

On 11/16/20 6:51 PM, George Haeh wrote:
Yikes! This is the THIRD collision I've heard of in the last year and a half between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft where one of the PowerFLARMs is not working. In the first two cases the towplane PowerFLARM was not operating, one because of undisclosed issues, the other because the towpilot was taxiing back to the hangar without turning on the PowerFLARM when a glider at the end of its landing run pulled in front.

3 Missed Opportunities
5 Write Offs
2 Fatalities
1 Hospitalisation

How much has/will your insurance go(ne) up ?


Kinda makes one wonder how many of these collisions would have happened
in the era before Flarm. You know, when pilots actually looked outside
more often.

--
Dan
5J

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 7:10:11 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:39:41 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs
They were not talking to each other and not aware of each other. They didn’t see each other until a split second before impact. One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware. They were both cruising under a cloud street and collided head on at 5300 ft MSL (3500 AGL) with their left wings significantly damaging the wings. Both gliders entered vertical or negative dive which helped them bailing out quickly as they fell of the gliders as soon as they released the seat belts. One pilot was mostly unscratched, the other was hospitalized due to hard landing on a slope and is recovering from back injury.
I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Ramy

I hope FLARM realizes how lucky they are that the pilot did not die. They intentionally program a piece of safety equipment to brick itself once a year which then directly leads to the loss of life? I can see the crying widow in the courtroom now. Not pretty.

Do you realize how irrational that comment is? It is entirely up to the pilot to update, they have a year to do it (firmware works for 2 years with a year overlap). If the pilot chooses, he can not have his parachute repacked, or not bother with the wing pins too. This should have the parachute and glider manufacturer quaking in their boots. In addition, it suggests flight is not possible without Flarm, which of course it used to be and often still is. I'm pretty sure every Flarm display will signal quite loudly that the firmware is inop. The alternative is to have a static system.

This is not to cast aspersions on the pilot, whom I know to be conscientious, plenty of people have and will again fly without or with inop Flarm. But to blame the manufacturer for this accident is ludicrous. If neither pilot had Flarm (legal and common) the outcome would be the same.

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 5:36:13 PM UTC-8, Tony wrote:
On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 7:10:11 PM UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 10, 2020 at 8:39:41 AM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
I wonder if they were at least talking to each other? Ramy, were you hearing anything on the radio? Anyone else?


Boggs
They were not talking to each other and not aware of each other. They didn’t see each other until a split second before impact. One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware. They were both cruising under a cloud street and collided head on at 5300 ft MSL (3500 AGL) with their left wings significantly damaging the wings. Both gliders entered vertical or negative dive which helped them bailing out quickly as they fell of the gliders as soon as they released the seat belts. One pilot was mostly unscratched, the other was hospitalized due to hard landing on a slope and is recovering from back injury.
I urge everyone to make sure to fly with operative powerflarm and upgrade the powerflarm firmware every year during the annual.

Ramy
I hope FLARM realizes how lucky they are that the pilot did not die. They intentionally program a piece of safety equipment to brick itself once a year which then directly leads to the loss of life? I can see the crying widow in the courtroom now. Not pretty.

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:11:54 -0800, jfitch wrote:

Do you realize how irrational that comment is? It is entirely up to the
pilot to update, they have a year to do it (firmware works for 2 years
with a year overlap).

I'm somewhat surprised that checking the FLARM software version isn't
part of your annual. It is he if FLARM is installed the software must
be up to date to get the annual signed off.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

We could try and work together as a group on this non functioning Flarm problem.
If your Flarm or a friends doesn't work as it should , which is Really well, get some help or give some help to fix it until it does. This mid air is exactly what Flarm was designed to prevent!
But it takes two to Tango. I understand that in Carbon Fuselage ships the install is very important, but obviously that has been worked out a long time ago.
FWIW in my fiberglass LS3a my Flarm has worked well from day 1. It is very easy to update it, and as Ramy stated even if you don't know how to use it, turn it on. The "Lady " will tell you where the traffic is if you have it connected to a talking display. This accident was exactly what Flarm was and could have been for. Its too bad Flarm WAS installed in both ships, but one owner didn't keep his operating.
Both those guys got lucky, very lucky.
Nick
T

On 11/16/20 6:10 PM, Ramy wrote:
One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware.

I wonder how many personal injury attorneys saw that statement...

--
Dan
5J

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 8:06:00 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/16/20 6:10 PM, Ramy wrote:
One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware.
I wonder how many personal injury attorneys saw that statement...

--
Dan
5J
Flarm is voluntary installation after all.
The pilot with the operating flarm was not injured.
The point here is not to put blame.
Every year I hear of multiple expired firmwares, including that very same day he wasn’t the only one.
There is an awareness and confusion issue which we need to address.
I am planning to always have the latest firmware on a USB stick with me (without my config file!) and periodically ask my buddies at the airport if they upgraded the firmware this year, if not, will upgrade it for them on the spot.

Ramy

On 11/17/2020 12:01 PM, Ramy wrote:
I am planning to always have the latest firmware on a USB stick with me (without my config file!) and periodically ask my buddies at the airport if they upgraded the firmware this year, if not, will upgrade it for them on the spot.

Thanks Ramy, for doing that and for setting a great example.

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 1:28:22 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On 11/17/2020 12:01 PM, Ramy wrote:
I am planning to always have the latest firmware on a USB stick with me (without my config file!) and periodically ask my buddies at the airport if they upgraded the firmware this year, if not, will upgrade it for them on the spot.
Thanks Ramy, for doing that and for setting a great example.


I for one have had mostly positive results using Flarm. It saved me from a direct head on at Parowan on a day with 3000’ cloud base and everyone was cruising at cloud base, waiting for the gate to open!............it was screaming at both of us! I find it comforting to see who’s around me, both other Flarm guys and transponder traffic also. I was monitoring center frequency and watching a transponder target that showed near me and about 2000’ above me, when I heard center call me out to an airliner. My portable unit is mounted on the canopy rail about 12�from my head. Had trouble reading it when mounted on the glare shield.......... my fuselage is carbon, but maybe the open location on canopy rail works better?
JJ