The decline of gliding - a worldwide issue?

On Sat, 13 Mar 2021 16:19:14 -0800, waremark wrote:

I have carefully considered the pro's and con's of buying a self-
launching K21 and have concluded that it does not make any sense to
operate one or two of those alongside a fleet of tugs and pure gliders.

Out of pure curiosity, why would you consider using self-launching K-21s
when you have at least one winch?

I'd expect a well-managed winch operation would give a better launch rate
than self-launching '21s as well as (probably, guessed) a lower operating
cost?

The only improvement I've seen, for landing practise anyway, is that a
good simulator can deliver many more simulated winch launches and
landings per hour than the best winch operation can manage, mainly
because no time is wasted bringing glider and inmates back to the
launchpoint for the next flight. Experience last year has shown me that
this is not necessarily worse training than you get from a launching in a
real K21 on a real winch, BUT, the simulator needs to have a real cockpit
and a big enough projected field of view that you don't notice its edges
while you're flying the simulator.

Weather put paid to my annual flying checks last year before the first
COVID lockdown. When that was lifted I, like many club members, spent a
couple of hours in the simulator with an instructor behind a glass
partition with an intercom. After that I got sent up the winch solo in a
K-21 for a check flight, observed from the ground by the instructor.
Apart from the lack of stalling and spinning checks, this worked pretty
well and I was cleared to fly my Libelle on the next soarable day.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

What an awful situation! Is that because your club owns the ground? If
you had a self-launcher you could fly out of a public field using your
own judgment. Or is it a BGA requirement to submit to such treatment?

In The Colonies, we have our every other year flight review required by
the FAA. The rest is on us to be competent.

Down with George III...

Dan
5J

On 3/13/21 6:04 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
and I was cleared to fly my Libelle on the next soarable day.

I think it is mostly a time commitment issue. Going soaring is an all day long affair. I don't see a way around that unless you slip in late morning and skip out right after landing. Not that there are any soaring pilots that would do such a thing. Even such abhorrent behavior still would take up a good portion of the day, if such behavior existed.

On Sunday, March 14, 2021 at 9:32:36 AM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
I think it is mostly a time commitment issue. Going soaring is an all day long affair. I don't see a way around that unless you slip in late morning and skip out right after landing. Not that there are any soaring pilots that would do such a thing. Even such abhorrent behavior still would take up a good portion of the day, if such behavior existed.
The club model helps keep soaring costs down and enthusiastic fliers don't mind spending a day at the field. In the 21st century, though, it's a tough model to sell to some of the new generation as their attention span has got shorter and there are many other demands for their time. Just imagine trying to sell a driving school on the same model - you get to push cars around the parking lot for a day and then can practice driving for 20 minutes. With a bit of luck, you'll have your license in a few months!

The 2-33 (aka Gollywomper) may be a good old workhorse but it is hardly attractive to new fliers - a bit like practicing on a model T before you get to sit in a real car!

Mike

The only thing in decline at my club is trailer parking and assembly space.

I used GE to check my memory and put together a photo essay for the club this morning. In Aug 2008, the overhead shows two trailers and four gliders tied out, and I do remember the Feb 2008 annual meeting at which real concern about the future of the club was expressed. Aug 2020 shows 15 trailers (2 or 3 are elsewhere) and 3 gliders tied out. I know of at least two more trailers en route and there is a rumor this morning of a third.

We promote XC. It works.

We train in what was the world's ugliest 2-33, because that's what we have (now with a new interior, thanks Don!). The only guy that complains is one of the back seaters (moi). The students are smart enough to see the GollyWhomper as a stepping stone to better things, including a club owned 304C.

The 304 is the other thing that works: the list of people who crewed for AJ more than once may be short, but the number of pilots who have flown our 304 and have left the sport is shorter still. Most (as in about 9 out of 10) fly the 304, then move whatever parts of their personal heaven and earth need moving to buy a sailplane of their own.

There is nothing we do in our club that you could not do in yours. Boundless enthusiasm does help.

T8

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:13:08 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

What an awful situation! Is that because your club owns the ground? If
you had a self-launcher you could fly out of a public field using your
own judgment. Or is it a BGA requirement to submit to such treatment?

BGA rules. I think it makes sense to show you can handle winch launch and
aero tow eventualities as well as spins at the start of the season - and
anyway its always quite a fun day's flying.

Down with George III...

Leave George 3 alone! During its prime (1968-1977) George 3 and Multics
were easily the best mainframe operating systems available.

OTOH, if you're thinking of the English monarch, the whole Boston Tea
Party kerfuffle was more properly blamed on Clive of India and the
British Parliament. In the aftermath of conquering Bengal, Clive was so
greedy in rewarding himself and his friends that he drove the East India
Company (popularly known as John Company) into bankruptcy. At this point
the British Government decided that John Company was too big to fail and,
not having the cash in hand to bail it out, decided that raising American
colonial taxes to the same level as British citizens were paying was a
good way of raising the money needed bail it out.

So, blaming King George III, who wasn't in good physical or mental health
at the time, for the American Revolution is really aiming at the wrong
targets.

BTW Clive, his son and wife were all as bad as each other at grabbing
anything that glittered and wasn't nailed down tight. The son married
into some somewhat impoverished Welsh nobility, thereby getting a title
and Powis Castle, which currently holds Clive's stash of Indian loot,
which I'm told contains more Mughal stuff than any other museum -
including those in India.

If you want to know more, William Dalrymple's "The Anarchy" is an
excellent, though quite a long read about the East India Company which,
at one stage, owned what was probably the biggest private army the world
has ever known.

Anyway, I now return you to the subject of glider flying.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Martin,
If you ever get to Moriarty, I will treat you to all the local beer that
you can handle. Thanks for the history lesson!

Dan
5J

On 3/14/21 11:08 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:13:08 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

What an awful situation! Is that because your club owns the ground? If
you had a self-launcher you could fly out of a public field using your
own judgment. Or is it a BGA requirement to submit to such treatment?

BGA rules. I think it makes sense to show you can handle winch launch and
aero tow eventualities as well as spins at the start of the season - and
anyway its always quite a fun day's flying.

Down with George III...

Leave George 3 alone! During its prime (1968-1977) George 3 and Multics
were easily the best mainframe operating systems available.

OTOH, if you're thinking of the English monarch, the whole Boston Tea
Party kerfuffle was more properly blamed on Clive of India and the
British Parliament. In the aftermath of conquering Bengal, Clive was so
greedy in rewarding himself and his friends that he drove the East India
Company (popularly known as John Company) into bankruptcy. At this point
the British Government decided that John Company was too big to fail and,
not having the cash in hand to bail it out, decided that raising American
colonial taxes to the same level as British citizens were paying was a
good way of raising the money needed bail it out.

So, blaming King George III, who wasn't in good physical or mental health
at the time, for the American Revolution is really aiming at the wrong
targets.

BTW Clive, his son and wife were all as bad as each other at grabbing
anything that glittered and wasn't nailed down tight. The son married
into some somewhat impoverished Welsh nobility, thereby getting a title
and Powis Castle, which currently holds Clive's stash of Indian loot,
which I'm told contains more Mughal stuff than any other museum -
including those in India.

If you want to know more, William Dalrymple's "The Anarchy" is an
excellent, though quite a long read about the East India Company which,
at one stage, owned what was probably the biggest private army the world
has ever known.

Anyway, I now return you to the subject of glider flying.

I just want to share an excerpt from a recent posting on the Hood River Soaring Club's google group, posted by one of the youth members (14 years old):

"Starting this Monday, me and any other youth members, or just club members that want to help, will be taking off and replacing the Mylar strips and wing seals on the L-33 and polishing it in KC’s shop. We got the glider disassembled and in the trailer today and hauled it up to his shop. (If you’re a youth member helping with this project, check with your mentor and ask them if you can count it for work study). If you’re interested in helping with this, email me xxxxx or text me xxxxx and let me know if you’re going to help so I can give you the address and or work out what hours we’re gonna work on it."

I was at the field doing some other work and there were 5 youth members and 3 adult members that were assisting launches and glider movement. The current youth cadre consists of about 12 members, the youngest is 12!

The club has been very active at soliciting youth through the local schools and has a "Work-to-fly" program that has produced many new glider points.

Please checkout their website: https://www.hoodriversoaring.org/

Mike

Dan Marotta wrote on 3/14/2021 3:30 PM:
Martin,
If you ever get to Moriarty, I will treat you to all the local beer that you can handle.
Thanks for the history lesson!

Dan
5J

On 3/14/21 11:08 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 10:13:08 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

What an awful situation!* Is that because your club owns the ground?* If
you had a self-launcher you could fly out of a public field using your
own judgment.* Or is it a BGA requirement to submit to such treatment?

BGA rules. I think it makes sense to show you can handle winch launch and
aero tow eventualities as well as spins at the start of the season - and
anyway its always quite a fun day's flying.

Down with George III...

Leave George 3 alone! During its prime (1968-1977) George 3 and Multics
were easily the best mainframe operating systems available.

OTOH, if you're thinking of the English monarch, the whole Boston Tea
Party kerfuffle was more properly blamed on Clive of India and the
British Parliament. In the aftermath of conquering Bengal, Clive was so
greedy in rewarding himself and his friends that he drove the East India
Company (popularly known as John Company) into bankruptcy. At this point
the British Government decided that John Company was too big to fail and,
not having the cash in hand to bail it out, decided that raising American
colonial taxes to the same level as British citizens were paying was a
good way of raising the money needed bail it out.

So, blaming King George III, who wasn't in good physical or mental health
at the time, for the American Revolution is really aiming at the wrong
targets.

BTW Clive, his son and wife were all as bad as each other at grabbing
anything that glittered and wasn't nailed down tight. The son married
into some somewhat impoverished Welsh nobility, thereby getting a title
and Powis Castle, which currently holds Clive's stash of Indian loot,
which I'm told contains more Mughal stuff than any other museum -
including those in India.

If you want to know more, William Dalrymple's "The Anarchy" is an
excellent, though quite a long read about the East India Company which,
at one stage, owned what was probably the biggest private army the world
has ever known.

Anyway, I now return you to the subject of glider flying.O

Oooh, beer in history class! I'd like to at least audit the class - don't need any graduation
credits.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 16:30:47 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Martin,
If you ever get to Moriarty, I will treat you to all the local beer that
you can handle. Thanks for the history lesson!

Dan, if or when I make it over to the far side of the USA again, I'll
certainly want to visit NM.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org