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#1
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If we accept the decline of soaring is due to expense in terms of cash and time along with too many other choices of how to spend discretionary time and money and people are choosing otherwise the real question is how do we make the product attractive? Many of the solution suggestions are very good. Many of them come from the perspective of experienced pilots and what is what we might want if starting out. Does the soaring community have any idea what a rank beginner wants? What does a person without any idea of what soaring is besides "It looks neat..." need to stay involved? I don't know I'm just asking.
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#2
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On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 11:16:45 AM UTC, Kevin Brooker wrote:
If we accept the decline of soaring is due to expense in terms of cash and time along with too many other choices of how to spend discretionary time and money and people are choosing otherwise the real question is how do we make the product attractive? Many of the solution suggestions are very good. Many of them come from the perspective of experienced pilots and what is what we might want if starting out. Does the soaring community have any idea what a rank beginner wants? What does a person without any idea of what soaring is besides "It looks neat..." need to stay involved? I don't know I'm just asking. Gliding is not in decline because it has become too expensive. It is in decline because it has failed to adapt to the needs and demands of society as it is today. "I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts". |
#3
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"I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts".
Well, that isn't exactly what happens. (85 year olds? Really?) But it isn't "Well. I know what I'm going to do for fun Saturday. I'll have Mom drive me to the airport and sit around playing with my iPhone while a bunch of old geezers push heavy gliders around and go take a flight after they get it set up for me. That's if there isn't anything better on Tik-Tok or Snapchat. Or if Tiffany doesn't send me a shot of her panties on WhatsApp and I get bored. Or maybe I'll just blow it off and go fly a glider on my computer simulator instead." |
#4
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Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers.
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#5
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Boomer
A slang term for Baby Boomer, often used in a derogatory manner. I hate boomers, all they do is complain about young people and pretend like it's not their fault the planet is dying! I guess I'm a proud Boomer. Since I actually have done and still do things not involving a small computer appendage. Dan 5J On 3/16/21 8:52 AM, Gregg Ballou wrote: Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers. |
#6
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On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 7:52:59 AM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote:
Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers. No, Gregg - others just don't want to be around you. Tom |
#7
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On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 3:29:02 PM UTC-4, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 7:52:59 AM UTC-7, Gregg Ballou wrote: Soaring's problem is soaring pilots are almost all Boomers and no one wants to be around Boomers. No, Gregg - others just don't want to be around you. Tom OK Boomer |
#8
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On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 8:21:09 AM UTC-6, wrote:
Gliding is not in decline because it has become too expensive. It is in decline because it has failed to adapt to the needs and demands of society as it is today. "I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts". Anyone who thinks finances are NOT a factor in the decline of gliding, has their head up their a$$. It may not be the only factor, but it most definitely is a major contributor. Most successful clubs are large. With large clubs comes significantly more dues, thus padding the bottom line, and thus enabling them to operate nicer equipment. How much $ do you think that club has invested in their equipment that operates 5 tugs and 5 K21s? Where did that money come from? There is this concept of critical mass, where you need a certain number of paying members to support the success of the operation. Below that, things start to dwindle and die. I did my training at a club that had a 2-33 and a Lark. Members hated flying the Lark. The instructor did not teach XC because he had no personal experience in it, and if the 2-33 landed out, it was a HUGE deal to trailer it back to the club. After getting my license in the 2-33, I bought my own glass ship, but they refused to tow me because I hadn't been checked out in it. But they also couldn't offer training to transition me from a 2-33 into a glass ship because the club didn't have one. They couldn't afford it. So I had to go elsewhere to get the training I needed to transition into my own glider. But that hasn't happened yet. I had to go to a commercial operation that charges SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the club charges. One 2-days weekend cost me almost as much as my entire ab-initio training cost me at the club. This has further delayed my training because I've had to take breaks from my training to save up money, often going 2 months between lessons during a limited soaring season (May to September). Now I will be the first to admit that the commercial operation is giving me excellent, quality training, and is making me a better pilot. But the financial aspect of it has been the biggest limiting factor in my development as a glider pilot. I live in a part of the country where there are no active soaring operations. I've had to travel 4hrs one way just to get training, and I see tremendous potential for soaring in my immediate area. I dream of starting a local club. But again, the biggest hinderance to that dream is the financial aspect of it. There just isn't enough of an interest locally to support the necessary financial investment needed to start something and "get it off the ground". I do agree with G2 that Condor has tremendous potential at generating interest among young people, particularly when it is used with the immersion of VR. I hope that one day this can be my reality of working with young people locally to set up an operation that is both affordable and captivating. I believe it is doable. But it will take a significant capital investment that I just don't have at this time. So please, don't say that gliding is not too expensive. Expense is the single biggest barrier I'm facing in my own personal development, and in moving forward with my vision. |
#9
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On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 9:06:25 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 8:21:09 AM UTC-6, wrote: Gliding is not in decline because it has become too expensive. It is in decline because it has failed to adapt to the needs and demands of society as it is today. "I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts". Anyone who thinks finances are NOT a factor in the decline of gliding, has their head up their a$$. It may not be the only factor, but it most definitely is a major contributor. Most successful clubs are large. With large clubs comes significantly more dues, thus padding the bottom line, and thus enabling them to operate nicer equipment. How much $ do you think that club has invested in their equipment that operates 5 tugs and 5 K21s? Where did that money come from? There is this concept of critical mass, where you need a certain number of paying members to support the success of the operation. Below that, things start to dwindle and die. I did my training at a club that had a 2-33 and a Lark. Members hated flying the Lark. The instructor did not teach XC because he had no personal experience in it, and if the 2-33 landed out, it was a HUGE deal to trailer it back to the club. After getting my license in the 2-33, I bought my own glass ship, but they refused to tow me because I hadn't been checked out in it. But they also couldn't offer training to transition me from a 2-33 into a glass ship because the club didn't have one. They couldn't afford it. So I had to go elsewhere to get the training I needed to transition into my own glider. But that hasn't happened yet. I had to go to a commercial operation that charges SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the club charges. One 2-days weekend cost me almost as much as my entire ab-initio training cost me at the club. This has further delayed my training because I've had to take breaks from my training to save up money, often going 2 months between lessons during a limited soaring season (May to September). Now I will be the first to admit that the commercial operation is giving me excellent, quality training, and is making me a better pilot. But the financial aspect of it has been the biggest limiting factor in my development as a glider pilot. I live in a part of the country where there are no active soaring operations. I've had to travel 4hrs one way just to get training, and I see tremendous potential for soaring in my immediate area. I dream of starting a local club. But again, the biggest hinderance to that dream is the financial aspect of it. There just isn't enough of an interest locally to support the necessary financial investment needed to start something and "get it off the ground". I do agree with G2 that Condor has tremendous potential at generating interest among young people, particularly when it is used with the immersion of VR. I hope that one day this can be my reality of working with young people locally to set up an operation that is both affordable and captivating. I believe it is doable. But it will take a significant capital investment that I just don't have at this time. So please, don't say that gliding is not too expensive. Expense is the single biggest barrier I'm facing in my own personal development, and in moving forward with my vision. If there was interest in soaring the money would follow. I heard every 2022 snowmobile is already sold by pre order. RVs, ATVs, boats and such are flying off the shelves. It ain't a lack of money, in your area it might be a lack of population density, but that is different. |
#10
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On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 7:47:02 PM UTC-6, Gregg Ballou wrote:
On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 9:06:25 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Tuesday, March 16, 2021 at 8:21:09 AM UTC-6, wrote: Gliding is not in decline because it has become too expensive. It is in decline because it has failed to adapt to the needs and demands of society as it is today. "I know what I'm going to do for fun this weekend....I'll spend my Saturday hanging around with 85 year olds, pushing heavy gliders about all day and hopefully I'll get a 20 min flight in return for my efforts". Anyone who thinks finances are NOT a factor in the decline of gliding, has their head up their a$$. It may not be the only factor, but it most definitely is a major contributor. Most successful clubs are large. With large clubs comes significantly more dues, thus padding the bottom line, and thus enabling them to operate nicer equipment. How much $ do you think that club has invested in their equipment that operates 5 tugs and 5 K21s? Where did that money come from? There is this concept of critical mass, where you need a certain number of paying members to support the success of the operation. Below that, things start to dwindle and die. I did my training at a club that had a 2-33 and a Lark. Members hated flying the Lark. The instructor did not teach XC because he had no personal experience in it, and if the 2-33 landed out, it was a HUGE deal to trailer it back to the club. After getting my license in the 2-33, I bought my own glass ship, but they refused to tow me because I hadn't been checked out in it. But they also couldn't offer training to transition me from a 2-33 into a glass ship because the club didn't have one. They couldn't afford it. So I had to go elsewhere to get the training I needed to transition into my own glider. But that hasn't happened yet. I had to go to a commercial operation that charges SIGNIFICANTLY more than what the club charges. One 2-days weekend cost me almost as much as my entire ab-initio training cost me at the club. This has further delayed my training because I've had to take breaks from my training to save up money, often going 2 months between lessons during a limited soaring season (May to September). Now I will be the first to admit that the commercial operation is giving me excellent, quality training, and is making me a better pilot. But the financial aspect of it has been the biggest limiting factor in my development as a glider pilot. I live in a part of the country where there are no active soaring operations. I've had to travel 4hrs one way just to get training, and I see tremendous potential for soaring in my immediate area. I dream of starting a local club. But again, the biggest hinderance to that dream is the financial aspect of it. There just isn't enough of an interest locally to support the necessary financial investment needed to start something and "get it off the ground". I do agree with G2 that Condor has tremendous potential at generating interest among young people, particularly when it is used with the immersion of VR. I hope that one day this can be my reality of working with young people locally to set up an operation that is both affordable and captivating. I believe it is doable. But it will take a significant capital investment that I just don't have at this time. So please, don't say that gliding is not too expensive. Expense is the single biggest barrier I'm facing in my own personal development, and in moving forward with my vision. If there was interest in soaring the money would follow. I heard every 2022 snowmobile is already sold by pre order. RVs, ATVs, boats and such are flying off the shelves. It ain't a lack of money, in your area it might be a lack of population density, but that is different. Indeed, twenty years ago $800 million annually was spent on snowmobiling in Maine alone. |
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