Navy or Air Farce?

On 12 Mar 2004 14:19:03 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote:

I knew a guy that took a dump in his helmet bag tho, while airborne. He was
happy the autopilot worked...
P. C. Chisholm

We had a guy with us in Fighter Lead-In at Holloman flying AT-38s. He
went X-C for a weekend on the Gulf Coast and finished off Saturday
night with a load of fresh seafood and shrimp.

Enroute home, solo, at FL 350 he got the urge--first a twinge and then
an insistance that could not be ignored. He debated, considered,
planned and finally decided that he must. He trimmed carefully, then
pinned his seat (wouldn't do to eject oneself with trou around the
ankles). Finally he began unstrapping. Fortunately he hadn't worn a
G-suit that day. Shrugged out of the parachute harness, but still
clumsily linked by helmet and oxygen mask to the CRU-60 connector on
the left shoulder strap, he then worked his way out of his flight
suit--urgency making his movements increasingly frantic. Finally,
shorts down and helmet bag retrieved from where he had been sitting on
it, opened and carefully positioned below him. His squadron scarf
removed for finish-up duty he released and in the process, nudged the
throttles.

The old J-85s at high altitude had become increasingly intolerant of
rapid throttle movements and as we had often been warned, both engines
promptly flamed out. Sudden silence as the engines spooled down and
the airplane dutifully maintained its trimmed-for speed and began a
rapid descent. Battery power to the radio almost immediately gave a
call from Albuquerque Center asking why he was deviating from his
assigned altitude.

Panicked, he know sat down on the helmet bag with the expected
dirty-diaper squishiness and grabbed for stick while punching at the
airstart buttons. The engines reliably responded and he climbed back
to altitude, flight suit and shorts around ankles, out of parachute
harness, and with no hope of recovering without the world knowing of
the events.

He landed back at HMN to considerable embarassment and an unhappy crew
chief and life-support NCO. He gained a new nickname in the squadron
as well, forever after being known as "Dirty Dan" (last name withheld
to maintain any remaining vestige of dignity for the poor guy.)



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air
Force pilot. The two guys in my class who took F-15Cs have probably had a lot
of fun flying around the local MOA and out at RED FLAG, but that's not what I
wanted to do.

I suppose your BUFF comrades look at you with a YGBSM expression when
you announce..."Yeah, BUFFs were my first choice..."

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On 12 Mar 2004 22:40:52 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air
Force pilot. The two guys in my class who took F-15Cs have probably had a lot
of fun flying around the local MOA and out at RED FLAG, but that's not what I
wanted to do.

I suppose your BUFF comrades look at you with a YGBSM expression when
you announce..."Yeah, BUFFs were my first choice..."

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.


BUFDRVR

While I understand your pride in accomplishment as well as your
rationale of going to a combat system, I've got to say that my reading
of the papers (as well as encounters with a lot of Ego and Viper
types) would seem to indicate that both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom
(as well as the Afghan and Bosnia excursions) have had more than
enough opportunity for the tactical types to get a whiff of gunpowder.

Might we be a bit parochial here?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

While I understand your pride in accomplishment as well as your
rationale of going to a combat system, I've got to say that my reading
of the papers (as well as encounters with a lot of Ego and Viper
types) would seem to indicate that both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom
(as well as the Afghan and Bosnia excursions) have had more than
enough opportunity for the tactical types to get a whiff of gunpowder.


Ed, I never said the other numerous AF platforms haven't contributed, but no
aircraft, save the B-1B, has struck as many targets since 1995 as the B-52.
Additionally, since 1995, there has never been more than 45 operational B-52
aircrew at any one time. Your odds of getting deployed in an actual conflict
are astronomically higher than in every weapons system except the Bone or the
U-2. I've been friends with an F-16 pilot since 1997 and (at least prior to
OIF) he had not dropped a weapon in anger. So, once again, I'll state that if
your goal is to defend this country by being involved in its conflicts, your
best bet is a BUFF.

Might we be a bit parochial here?

Not at all. Just some good natured "chest pumping"


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, BUFDRVR
blurted out:

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans would
buy that self-serving BS? Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod
their head in agreement?

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

....And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air Force pilot.

Hey easy for me...I wanted to be the commander of USAFE, or TAC, say
"Two, Bingo, Mayday...Lead you're on fire." I wanted to eat jager
schnitzel mit pomme frites in the german village where I lived for
three year; I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS; I
wanted to fly fast and low and hear BRASSMONKEY on Guard; Ivan and Kim
Il-Sung were the enemy.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

I wanted to have fun while running around in a green and brown mottled
Phantoms with my fangs out, hair on fire.

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.

A noble jesture on your part, you had the prescience to select the
B-52...every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters,
but they busted a check-ride, the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion,
etc. NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers.

Bottom line...I respect you as an air warrior. I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Juvat

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:54:17 GMT, Juvat
wrote:

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans would
buy that self-serving BS? Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod
their head in agreement?

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

...And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

Hey easy for me...I wanted to be the commander of USAFE, or TAC, say
"Two, Bingo, Mayday...Lead you're on fire." I wanted to eat jager
schnitzel mit pomme frites in the german village where I lived for
three year; I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS; I
wanted to fly fast and low and hear BRASSMONKEY on Guard; Ivan and Kim
Il-Sung were the enemy.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

I wanted to have fun while running around in a green and brown mottled
Phantoms with my fangs out, hair on fire.

A noble jesture on your part, you had the prescience to select the
B-52...every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters,
but they busted a check-ride, the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion,
etc. NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers.

Bottom line...I respect you as an air warrior. I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Juvat

Twoop!!

And, "Lead, you really are on fire...."


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans

No one in my class got C-130's.

would buy that self-serving BS?

Self serving ? It's a fact.

Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod their head in agreement?

Only 1 KC-135 in my class, did the third pilot thing, went back to AETC to fly
-37s.
The only guy I may have short changed in my class was a guy going to T-37's
with a C-17 follow on, but I later heard he stayed in -37s, not sure where he
is now.

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

Every combat sortie I've flown, if the EW wasn't jamming something, he was
helping out by copying 9-lines and backing up the Nav team on targeting.

...And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

Only 1 F-16 guy (forgot about him in my earlier post) who was flying Cs out of
Cannon. He *may* have gotten some OIF time, but I'm not sure. The only other
fighter guys were F-15Cs.

I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS

I feel the exact opposite.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

We do more than stand-off...I would think you would know that. In fact, I've
only flown 1 CALCM combat sortie. And I didn't ask my self that question
either. I wanted to drop a lot of weapons and be involved in the conflicts this
nation fought. Your ego must be *huge* if you can't grasp that not everyone
wants to do what you do.

every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters

Well, if you ever run into a Viper pilot, call sign Tank, from Class 95-10 at
Vance ask him about the guy in his class who took the BUFF.

but they busted a check-ride

Never busted a check-ride, in fact me, Tank and the #1 guy who took an Eagle
were the only ones in our class that dodged that.

the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion

My wife could have cared less what aircraft I took...

I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Well, originally showing up at Vance in June '94 I wanted a Bone, but there was
an ex-B-1B maintenance officer in my class (one of the Eagle drivers) and he
kind of talked me out of it. At the time, all the Bone could carry was Mk-82s
and they were even having problems with those. He told of the horrible FMC
rate and the number of cancelled sorties they had. By the time -38s rolled
around I had changed my mind and swapped my #2 (BUFF) for the Bone. I still
can't believe you're having trouble with this. I met guys in UPT who wanted
nothing more than to fly for the airlines and they wanted cargo, or even better
a KC-10. I watched an entire class of Academy grads pass up F-16s for C-21s to
Peterson AFB. There were two Vipers in that drop and they went to two guys in
the bottom of the class. Relax, neither made it out of IFF.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Juvat- NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers. BRBR

I actually knew a guy that 'wanted' P-3ss..honest..but yer right, most want
fastmovers. A bit different in the USN, when you are in the jet pipeline, you
are going to probably get a tactical jet but some 'wanted' S-3s and
EA-6Bs...but they squated to pee....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

bufdrvr- Hmmm, at least in the bomber community, taking a dump is not
considered an
accomplishment.....I always suspected it was in the fighter community though..
BRBR

Yep, but you can get up, wander back past the bunks with lace curtains, sit
down in the ****ter while listening to music or watch a DVD, while the 'stew'
is busy making your lunch...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Yep, but you can get up, wander back past the bunks with lace curtains,

Hmm...

sitdown in the ****ter

Have never taken a dump on a BUFF (even on several 30+ hour sorties)...and hope
to God I never have to.

while listening to music or watch a DVD

The pilots can't really watch a DVD, no place to put the player in the pilots
station....although I have listened to more than my share of movies droning
back from Afghanistan.

while the 'stew'is busy making your lunch.

Boy...that would be great...


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"