Navy or Air Farce?

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air
Force pilot. The two guys in my class who took F-15Cs have probably had a lot
of fun flying around the local MOA and out at RED FLAG, but that's not what I
wanted to do.

I suppose your BUFF comrades look at you with a YGBSM expression when
you announce..."Yeah, BUFFs were my first choice..."

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

On 12 Mar 2004 22:40:52 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air
Force pilot. The two guys in my class who took F-15Cs have probably had a lot
of fun flying around the local MOA and out at RED FLAG, but that's not what I
wanted to do.

I suppose your BUFF comrades look at you with a YGBSM expression when
you announce..."Yeah, BUFFs were my first choice..."

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.


BUFDRVR

While I understand your pride in accomplishment as well as your
rationale of going to a combat system, I've got to say that my reading
of the papers (as well as encounters with a lot of Ego and Viper
types) would seem to indicate that both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom
(as well as the Afghan and Bosnia excursions) have had more than
enough opportunity for the tactical types to get a whiff of gunpowder.

Might we be a bit parochial here?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

While I understand your pride in accomplishment as well as your
rationale of going to a combat system, I've got to say that my reading
of the papers (as well as encounters with a lot of Ego and Viper
types) would seem to indicate that both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom
(as well as the Afghan and Bosnia excursions) have had more than
enough opportunity for the tactical types to get a whiff of gunpowder.


Ed, I never said the other numerous AF platforms haven't contributed, but no
aircraft, save the B-1B, has struck as many targets since 1995 as the B-52.
Additionally, since 1995, there has never been more than 45 operational B-52
aircrew at any one time. Your odds of getting deployed in an actual conflict
are astronomically higher than in every weapons system except the Bone or the
U-2. I've been friends with an F-16 pilot since 1997 and (at least prior to
OIF) he had not dropped a weapon in anger. So, once again, I'll state that if
your goal is to defend this country by being involved in its conflicts, your
best bet is a BUFF.

Might we be a bit parochial here?

Not at all. Just some good natured "chest pumping"


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, BUFDRVR
blurted out:

You are an anomaly...deviation from the common rule
...something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified.

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans would
buy that self-serving BS? Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod
their head in agreement?

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

....And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

I guess its just a case of why you wanted to be an Air Force pilot.

Hey easy for me...I wanted to be the commander of USAFE, or TAC, say
"Two, Bingo, Mayday...Lead you're on fire." I wanted to eat jager
schnitzel mit pomme frites in the german village where I lived for
three year; I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS; I
wanted to fly fast and low and hear BRASSMONKEY on Guard; Ivan and Kim
Il-Sung were the enemy.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

I wanted to have fun while running around in a green and brown mottled
Phantoms with my fangs out, hair on fire.

A few of them do, but most also realize that, at least since 1995, B-52s have
made a tremendous impact on the National Security of the U.S. and its the
platform to be in if that's your goal. Flying around the flag pole at Mach 2
may be pretty cool, but it pales in comparison to dropping a JDAM on a Taliban
mortor team in regards to defending the country.

A noble jesture on your part, you had the prescience to select the
B-52...every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters,
but they busted a check-ride, the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion,
etc. NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers.

Bottom line...I respect you as an air warrior. I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Juvat

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:54:17 GMT, Juvat
wrote:

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans would
buy that self-serving BS? Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod
their head in agreement?

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

...And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

Hey easy for me...I wanted to be the commander of USAFE, or TAC, say
"Two, Bingo, Mayday...Lead you're on fire." I wanted to eat jager
schnitzel mit pomme frites in the german village where I lived for
three year; I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS; I
wanted to fly fast and low and hear BRASSMONKEY on Guard; Ivan and Kim
Il-Sung were the enemy.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

I wanted to have fun while running around in a green and brown mottled
Phantoms with my fangs out, hair on fire.

A noble jesture on your part, you had the prescience to select the
B-52...every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters,
but they busted a check-ride, the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion,
etc. NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers.

Bottom line...I respect you as an air warrior. I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Juvat

Twoop!!

And, "Lead, you really are on fire...."


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

I suppose.... but out of my UPT class, I'm the only one who has ever applied
his trade in combat...

Dude...did you read that last sentence before you hit "send?" You
think any of your UPT buds in C-130s hauling bullets and beans

No one in my class got C-130's.

would buy that self-serving BS?

Self serving ? It's a fact.

Think KC-135/-10 guys passing gas would nod their head in agreement?

Only 1 KC-135 in my class, did the third pilot thing, went back to AETC to fly
-37s.
The only guy I may have short changed in my class was a guy going to T-37's
with a C-17 follow on, but I later heard he stayed in -37s, not sure where he
is now.

How about the EWOs or DSOs in your jet? How many SAM or AI radars have
they battled since 1995?

Every combat sortie I've flown, if the EW wasn't jamming something, he was
helping out by copying 9-lines and backing up the Nav team on targeting.

...And if it's true that your F-16/F-15E classmates have not dropped
live in Iraq or Afghanistan...the system is ****ed up 'cause every
swinging dick ANG air-to-mud guy/gal has over the course of several
deployments since 1991.

Only 1 F-16 guy (forgot about him in my earlier post) who was flying Cs out of
Cannon. He *may* have gotten some OIF time, but I'm not sure. The only other
fighter guys were F-15Cs.

I didn't want to spend all my career PCS'd to CONUS

I feel the exact opposite.

I didn't ask myself, "Self...which aerial platform will most likely
provide the greatest benefit in terms of standoff weapons employement
with the concomitant minimum sorties."

We do more than stand-off...I would think you would know that. In fact, I've
only flown 1 CALCM combat sortie. And I didn't ask my self that question
either. I wanted to drop a lot of weapons and be involved in the conflicts this
nation fought. Your ego must be *huge* if you can't grasp that not everyone
wants to do what you do.

every UPT grad I ever asked says they wanted to fly fighters

Well, if you ever run into a Viper pilot, call sign Tank, from Class 95-10 at
Vance ask him about the guy in his class who took the BUFF.

but they busted a check-ride

Never busted a check-ride, in fact me, Tank and the #1 guy who took an Eagle
were the only ones in our class that dodged that.

the wife/girlfriend rejected the notion

My wife could have cared less what aircraft I took...

I don't know you but
your claim that BUFFs (not even BONEs) were your first choice is
interesting.

Well, originally showing up at Vance in June '94 I wanted a Bone, but there was
an ex-B-1B maintenance officer in my class (one of the Eagle drivers) and he
kind of talked me out of it. At the time, all the Bone could carry was Mk-82s
and they were even having problems with those. He told of the horrible FMC
rate and the number of cancelled sorties they had. By the time -38s rolled
around I had changed my mind and swapped my #2 (BUFF) for the Bone. I still
can't believe you're having trouble with this. I met guys in UPT who wanted
nothing more than to fly for the airlines and they wanted cargo, or even better
a KC-10. I watched an entire class of Academy grads pass up F-16s for C-21s to
Peterson AFB. There were two Vipers in that drop and they went to two guys in
the bottom of the class. Relax, neither made it out of IFF.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Juvat- NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers. BRBR

I actually knew a guy that 'wanted' P-3ss..honest..but yer right, most want
fastmovers. A bit different in the USN, when you are in the jet pipeline, you
are going to probably get a tactical jet but some 'wanted' S-3s and
EA-6Bs...but they squated to pee....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

After an exhausting session with Victoria's Secret Police, Pechs1
blurted out:

I actually knew a guy that 'wanted' P-3ss..honest..but yer right, most want
fastmovers. A bit different in the USN, when you are in the jet pipeline, you
are going to probably get a tactical jet but some 'wanted' S-3s ...

I fly with a couple guys that wanted Hoovers or P-3s because they
planned to move on to the airlines...which leads me to another, "No
**** this really happened," story.

A DC-9 captain I flew with was a P-3 guy, USNA grad, active Blue &
Gold reservist...good guy, loved trading insults, "The Air Force
trains pilots...the Navy develops aviators...blah, blah, blah."

I'd come to find out that by the time Bill had gone thru flight
school, that guys going onto the P-3 no longer got to CQ. I saved that
bit of info for future reference.

Ahh yes, it was a beautiful day. The sun was shining, birds singing,
the flight attendants were friendly and hardbodies...and we had a
Marine A-4 guy on the jumpseat.

During the course of the short enroute segment we all got into a
discussion of the superiority of one's military flying experience.
Bill puffed out his chest with pride and repeated his litany, "the Air
Force trains pilots, the Navy develops aviators..."

The Marine smiled and nodded.

I admitted that I had never landed on the deck of a carrier and that
had to have been exciting, scary, interesting, different. So I asked
Bill what liked best about his CQ experience.

"Ahhh hmmm, guys in the P-3 pipeline didn't CQ when I went thru."

I nodded thoughtfully, paused to reflect and announced confidently,
"So Bill...you're just like an Air Force pilot!"

The Marine howled!

Bill declined to regale me with his naval superiority after that.

Juvat

On 3/13/04 8:36 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Juvat- NOBODY ever said they wanted to fly BUFFS or tankers. BRBR

I actually knew a guy that 'wanted' P-3ss..honest..but yer right, most want
fastmovers. A bit different in the USN, when you are in the jet pipeline, you
are going to probably get a tactical jet but some 'wanted' S-3s and
EA-6Bs...but they squated to pee....
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

These days, gouge is the powers that be are forced to DRAFT dudes from
primary into the jet pipeline. (Masher, are you hearing this too?)

Apparently, folks don't want to put up with the extra year of BS that it
takes to earn your jet wings.

--Woody

bufdrvr- Hmmm, at least in the bomber community, taking a dump is not
considered an
accomplishment.....I always suspected it was in the fighter community though..
BRBR

Yep, but you can get up, wander back past the bunks with lace curtains, sit
down in the ****ter while listening to music or watch a DVD, while the 'stew'
is busy making your lunch...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer