Capt. Al Haynes sorta OT.

Sad but often true. That's just one of the "headaches" I was talking
about. I know
a few very talented teachers who have vowed NEVER to teach GT (gifted and
talented)
again unless all of the students were orphans. They loved the kids, but
the parents
drove them away.

Another facet is discipline. Without it, the teachers are doomed.

Our example: Iowa has it -- Wisconsin did not.

It took half a dozen trips to the principal's office before my then-2nd
grade son truly understood that when they said "Stay off the grass!" they
REALLY meant "Stay off the grass!"

In Wisconsin, the rules were simply not enforced. As a result, they had to
install metal detectors in the middle schools, and cops in the high
schools -- and we had to get our kids out of there.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...


Rob Perkins wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 19:12:01 -0500, Margy Natalie
wrote:

I don't think that is true, but the statistic I know is true states
that most
teachers leave teaching in the first 5 years. The reason? The pay
isn't worth
the headaches, time, etc.

There's more than just salary levels behind the paucity of good
teachers.

I'm personally acquainted with one teacher who quit after one year.
The reason? The school board stood behind a pair of wealthy parents
who wanted their daughter to get away with cheating on his final test.
When he refused his "contract was not renewed."



Margy

I am changing careers. After working for 12 years in the computer science
industry I am going to "semi-retire" to teach math and computer science.
Many family members and acquaintances teach and when I compare their
lifestyle and working hours and stress to mine I conclude that the pay cut
is worth the reduced hours and the retirement benefits are almost criminal.
(in my opinion)


"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote in message
...
Richard Hertz wrote:
Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only
7
hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax payers.

And how much teaching experience do you have? I'm guessing none by your
response.


Matt

Richard Hertz wrote:
I am changing careers. After working for 12 years in the computer science
industry I am going to "semi-retire" to teach math and computer science.
Many family members and acquaintances teach and when I compare their
lifestyle and working hours and stress to mine I conclude that the pay cut
is worth the reduced hours and the retirement benefits are almost criminal.
(in my opinion)

Let us know what you think after completing your first year of teaching.
Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.


Matt

Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.

My sister would laugh at that "low-stress" statement, too! Imagine
"teaching" a room full of adolescent boys and girls? NOT!

But the bottom line is this: I've had ten times the stress in my various
businesses and careers as she's had in teaching (a fact that she freely
admits), and there is no way in hell I'll be able to retire in 9 years.

At least not unless a WHOLE lot more of you guys start flying to Iowa on the
weekends! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:

Richard Hertz wrote:
I am changing careers. After working for 12 years in the computer science
industry I am going to "semi-retire" to teach math and computer science.
Many family members and acquaintances teach and when I compare their
lifestyle and working hours and stress to mine I conclude that the pay cut
is worth the reduced hours and the retirement benefits are almost criminal.
(in my opinion)

Let us know what you think after completing your first year of teaching.
Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.


One of our newer teachers who left industry to teach stated at the end of his
first year "now I know why teachers have the summer off, they need it to
recover". He said he had never been so tired and burned out in his life. He's
still teaching and rather good at it.

Margy

Margy Natalie wrote:

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


Richard Hertz wrote:

I am changing careers. After working for 12 years in the computer science
industry I am going to "semi-retire" to teach math and computer science.
Many family members and acquaintances teach and when I compare their
lifestyle and working hours and stress to mine I conclude that the pay cut
is worth the reduced hours and the retirement benefits are almost criminal.
(in my opinion)

Let us know what you think after completing your first year of teaching.
Good luck! I've often thought of this as well, but I know several
teachers very well and low stress isn't in their job description.



One of our newer teachers who left industry to teach stated at the end of his
first year "now I know why teachers have the summer off, they need it to
recover". He said he had never been so tired and burned out in his life. He's
still teaching and rather good at it.

I still may well give it a try as a second career if I get a shot at an
early retirement package from my current employer. I think my CS/EE
degrees would qualify me fairly well to teach math and science.
However, I have no delusions of it being a high pay/low stress job.


Matt

Yeah, teachers only work 195 days a year (but they are only paid for 195 days a
year). Work 7 hours???!!?!?! For the past 3 years my New Year's Resolution
was to leave school before 6PM (I get there at 7:30), I usually stuck with it
until almost late January :-). The retirement is usually decent if you stick
with it for 30 or 35 years as opposed to the federal government or military
where you get a good pension at 20.

Margy

Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only 7
hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax payers.

"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:59:54 GMT, "Matthew S. Whiting"
wrote:

wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:


Capt. Haynes is a retired airline captain, and a sought-after speaker
on the
mashed-potato circuit. As such he should set for life, and pretty
much
rolling in money.


There are some retired TWA pilots that need to work to make ends meet.
There
are some recently retired pilots from "reorganized" carriers who have
lost a
good portion of their retirement.

That is truly infortunate, but I have a hard time feeling too sorry for
folks that made well over $100K/year and didn't sock away a little on
their own for retirement. I make less than most senior airline pilots
and I'm not planning on having SS be available when I retire nor my
company pension. If one or both are still there, that will be gravey.


Then, there's those overpaid school teachers in California who retire
at 100%,
get COLA increases from a bankrupt state, and who are rolling in
dough.~

I'm not familiar with CA (thankfully!), but in most states teachers make
a LOT less than airline pilots.

And put up with mounds more bull**** for about 10 hours a day and at
least 20 days out of the month.

Most teachers I know are out the door long before then.

Also, most other salaried professionals work longer hours than teachers for
no extra pay either, so the gripes about extra take-home work falls on
uncaring ears.

The bottom line is - there are plenty of qualified people lined up to take
the teaching jobs at the current salary levels. Even when unemployment is
at historic lows this is the case.

I oppose all those government gravy pensions. (Military/combat service
excluded)

One other big problem is the non-meritocracy of government/school systems.
Pay is based on years of service and so-called education credits. In the
"real" world pay is based on performance, merit, etc.

Most of the problems lie with the administrations and the general concept of
"free" or public/government run education.


"Margy Natalie" wrote in message
...
Yeah, teachers only work 195 days a year (but they are only paid for 195
days a
year). Work 7 hours???!!?!?! For the past 3 years my New Year's
Resolution
was to leave school before 6PM (I get there at 7:30), I usually stuck with
it
until almost late January :-). The retirement is usually decent if you
stick
with it for 30 or 35 years as opposed to the federal government or
military
where you get a good pension at 20.

Margy

Richard Hertz wrote:

Yeah, but they only have to work 180 days out of the year and work only
7
hour days and then get retirement plans that are killing the tax payers.

"Stu Gotts" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:59:54 GMT, "Matthew S. Whiting"
wrote:

wrote:

Jay Honeck wrote:


Capt. Haynes is a retired airline captain, and a sought-after
speaker
on the
mashed-potato circuit. As such he should set for life, and pretty
much
rolling in money.


There are some retired TWA pilots that need to work to make ends
meet.
There
are some recently retired pilots from "reorganized" carriers who
have
lost a
good portion of their retirement.

That is truly infortunate, but I have a hard time feeling too sorry
for
folks that made well over $100K/year and didn't sock away a little on
their own for retirement. I make less than most senior airline
pilots
and I'm not planning on having SS be available when I retire nor my
company pension. If one or both are still there, that will be
gravey.


Then, there's those overpaid school teachers in California who
retire
at 100%,
get COLA increases from a bankrupt state, and who are rolling in
dough.~

I'm not familiar with CA (thankfully!), but in most states teachers
make
a LOT less than airline pilots.

And put up with mounds more bull**** for about 10 hours a day and at
least 20 days out of the month.

Richard Hertz wrote:
Most teachers I know are out the door long before then.

Also, most other salaried professionals work longer hours than teachers for
no extra pay either, so the gripes about extra take-home work falls on
uncaring ears.

The bottom line is - there are plenty of qualified people lined up to take
the teaching jobs at the current salary levels. Even when unemployment is
at historic lows this is the case.

Really? In my area it is very hard to find math and science teachers.


I oppose all those government gravy pensions. (Military/combat service
excluded)

One other big problem is the non-meritocracy of government/school systems.
Pay is based on years of service and so-called education credits. In the
"real" world pay is based on performance, merit, etc.

Yes, that is my biggest beef with the teaching system at present. And
the fact that it is unionized. I don't believe that "professional" and
"union" go together, but then many pilots are union also...

Matt

"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:


One other big problem is the non-meritocracy of government/school systems.
Pay is based on years of service and so-called education credits. In the
"real" world pay is based on performance, merit, etc.

Yes, that is my biggest beef with the teaching system at present. And
the fact that it is unionized. I don't believe that "professional" and
"union" go together, but then many pilots are union also...


I'm in a "right to work" State so Union doesn't mean anything. The real reason
teachers don't have a merit system is they discovered it was detrimental to the
students. Right now if I write a lesson that really clicks and works great I
make copies and give it to all the other teachers. We help each other out to
give the best to our kids. Under merit pay (which many districts had for a
while) teachers would keep their best lessons to themselves so they could be in
the top 5% to get the raise. It didn't work. Another problem is how to score
teachers to rank them.

Margy