Wet Signature on W&B?

When you weigh a plane, what is required for paper work? I imagine an equipment
list as installed with the nominal weights and CG's of installed equipment such
as radios similar to the original equipment list is needed.

Otis Winslow wrote:

I can't recall seeing anything with the requirment to have the actual signed
copy
in the plane. I've always kept that with the log books. I keep a copy of it
in the
plane.

As for trying to come up with an accurate one, that's often an effort in
futility. Having
been faced with multiple revisions, seemingly carefully updated several
times, I've
opted to just weigh the plane. And it's always been off significantly from
the brought
foreward updates. Plus it's probably cheaper than spending several hours
trying
to figure it out.

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

Got asked a question that I can't find the answer to.

Say I take a feller's logbooks home during the annual and after a few
hours of
grunt and scream I come up with what I think is the current equipment list
and a
defensible weight and balance. I sign off the w&b in the logbook and give
the
feller the printout equipment list with the same weight and balance
figures as
are in the logbook.

I print this out with my printed name and certificate number at the
bottom, but
don't sign the printout. Or he asks a few months later for a copy of the
w&b by
email. I sure as hell have a hard time poking ink down the phone lines.

So, sez, I, where in the regs is it stated that the w&b that you carry on
board
the airplane needs a signature? I can't find it. Please, no answers
telling me
how to cut and paste a signature into a spreadsheet. That is child's
play, and
besides, how the hell do you know that somebody didn't cut and paste phony
data
over my signature?

So, chapter and verse REQUIRING a signature on the w&b in the aircraft?

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:

When you weigh a plane, what is required for paper work? I imagine an equipment
list as installed with the nominal weights and CG's of installed equipment such
as radios similar to the original equipment list is needed.

Nope. A logbook entry stating that it was weighed and a new weight and balance sheet.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

The maintenance manual will have the procedure to use for weighing
the plane and calculating the W&B. That's what I've used.



"Ray Andraka" wrote in message
...
When you weigh a plane, what is required for paper work? I imagine an
equipment
list as installed with the nominal weights and CG's of installed equipment
such
as radios similar to the original equipment list is needed.

Otis Winslow wrote:

I can't recall seeing anything with the requirment to have the actual
signed
copy
in the plane. I've always kept that with the log books. I keep a copy of
it
in the
plane.

As for trying to come up with an accurate one, that's often an effort in
futility. Having
been faced with multiple revisions, seemingly carefully updated several
times, I've
opted to just weigh the plane. And it's always been off significantly
from
the brought
foreward updates. Plus it's probably cheaper than spending several hours
trying
to figure it out.

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

Got asked a question that I can't find the answer to.

Say I take a feller's logbooks home during the annual and after a few
hours of
grunt and scream I come up with what I think is the current equipment
list
and a
defensible weight and balance. I sign off the w&b in the logbook and
give
the
feller the printout equipment list with the same weight and balance
figures as
are in the logbook.

I print this out with my printed name and certificate number at the
bottom, but
don't sign the printout. Or he asks a few months later for a copy of
the
w&b by
email. I sure as hell have a hard time poking ink down the phone
lines.

So, sez, I, where in the regs is it stated that the w&b that you carry
on
board
the airplane needs a signature? I can't find it. Please, no answers
telling me
how to cut and paste a signature into a spreadsheet. That is child's
play, and
besides, how the hell do you know that somebody didn't cut and paste
phony
data
over my signature?

So, chapter and verse REQUIRING a signature on the w&b in the
aircraft?

Jim
Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Ray Andraka wrote:
When you weigh a plane, what is required for paper work? I imagine an equipment
list as installed with the nominal weights and CG's of installed equipment such
as radios similar to the original equipment list is needed.

Depends on the plane. For my 182 we just weighed it last week during
the annual. I completely drained the tanks, then ran the engine until
it died. Then we weighed it. Then we also figured the CG as per the
Cessna drawing. My plane is 50 pounds heavier than the last revision
and the CG is 1/2 inch farther forward. I have an equipment list that I
made on the computer.

"Otis Winslow" wrote in message
.. .

As for trying to come up with an accurate one, that's often an effort in
futility. Having
been faced with multiple revisions, seemingly carefully updated several
times, I've
opted to just weigh the plane. And it's always been off significantly from
the brought
foreward updates. Plus it's probably cheaper than spending several hours
trying
to figure it out.

Make sure that the weigh station uses the correct procedure. I spent
several hours trying to reconcile a 60lb difference between equipment
added since new & an 'official' weigh in 1995. (I've a 1966 182).

Turns out that the official "Cessna" way is to drain all the fuel. The
weigh station weighed it when full of fuel & subtracted the difference
mathematically. The fuel tanks contain more than advertised, as
I later verified when complying with a fuel tank SB which required
me to drain all the fuel. So I'm being cheated out of 60lbs in legal
payload by my current W&B sheet. One day I'll fix it.

The 'weigh' was before I owned the plane.

The proceedure for backing the weight of fluids out
of the W&B calculation varies by model year (or
serial number range). The proceedure is specified
(By Cessna) in the 182's Type Data Sheet, which
your IA should be looking at during an annual inspection.
I have a copy of the TDS in my logs with all of the relevant
parts high-lighted for my L model.

MikeM


Tony Cox wrote:

"Otis Winslow" wrote in message
.. .

As for trying to come up with an accurate one, that's often an effort in
futility. Having
been faced with multiple revisions, seemingly carefully updated several
times, I've
opted to just weigh the plane. And it's always been off significantly from
the brought
foreward updates. Plus it's probably cheaper than spending several hours
trying
to figure it out.


Make sure that the weigh station uses the correct procedure. I spent
several hours trying to reconcile a 60lb difference between equipment
added since new & an 'official' weigh in 1995. (I've a 1966 182).

Turns out that the official "Cessna" way is to drain all the fuel. The
weigh station weighed it when full of fuel & subtracted the difference
mathematically. The fuel tanks contain more than advertised, as
I later verified when complying with a fuel tank SB which required
me to drain all the fuel. So I'm being cheated out of 60lbs in legal
payload by my current W&B sheet. One day I'll fix it.

The 'weigh' was before I owned the plane.

"mikem" wrote in message
...
The proceedure for backing the weight of fluids out
of the W&B calculation varies by model year (or
serial number range). The proceedure is specified
(By Cessna) in the 182's Type Data Sheet, which
your IA should be looking at during an annual inspection.
I have a copy of the TDS in my logs with all of the relevant
parts high-lighted for my L model.

I didn't realize it was model year specific, but from my
Type Data Sheet the procedure is to drain all the
fuel, which of course wasn't done. Hence the 60lbs discrepancy.

Tony Cox wrote:

"mikem" wrote in message
...

The proceedure for backing the weight of fluids out
of the W&B calculation varies by model year (or
serial number range). The proceedure is specified
(By Cessna) in the 182's Type Data Sheet, which
your IA should be looking at during an annual inspection.
I have a copy of the TDS in my logs with all of the relevant
parts high-lighted for my L model.


I didn't realize it was model year specific, but from my
Type Data Sheet the procedure is to drain all the
fuel, which of course wasn't done. Hence the 60lbs discrepancy.


If the AP that weighed it is still around, then print out
the TCDS specific to your model year, recompute the W&B to
your favor, take it to the AP. He/she should be willing to
sign the corrected WB at no charge. If not, ask if you should
take it to the FSDO to have it recomputed...

MikeM