Cost to install IFR GPS in a basic IFR 172?

In article , Mike H
writes:

No, no, no.... You DON'T want to try to repair that ADF.
We went that route for close to two years in our Archer, trying to
repair the Narco ADF and Navs/Coms. We just threw good money after bad.
We probably ended up sinking $2000 over a 2 year period before finally giving
in and going for a Garmin 430 and new King Nav/Com. It cost a pretty
penny (about $12000) but sure is nice now!


I agree that you don't repair the ADF. I have the 430 installed (with a 330
transponder for TIS) in my 79Archer but a used Garmin 195 is a pretty good
inexpensive solution for VFR.

Chuck

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
om...
Googling the group yielded little so here goes...

1979 172, overall average condition with mostly original radios and
wiring (one RT-385 recently replaced by a TKM radio, M1 Loran from a
few centuries ago)

The Cessna 300 ADF has gone flaky. The box tests fine on the bench
which suggests a wild goose chase may be in store to find the
gremlins. One of the two ILS approaches at my home field require ADF,
and a few fields I go to are ADF/GPS-only so I need one of the two.

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup. I'll get
legal ADF and DME capability not to mention a moving map. Trying to
convince 4 other partners this is a good idea b/c it will make it
easier to sell shares in the future and even if they are VFR-only the
moving map is a big plus.
[snip]

If I remember correctly, you can use a GPS as a substitute for ADF for darn
near everything except an actual ADF approach. You can navigate to/from the
"ADF", hold at it, use it to define a marker/compass locator. Many NDB
approaches have some sort of GPS overlay, but I've seen a few around here
that didn't.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong (i was wrong last year, i guess i'm due
again...)

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup.

I have a GX 60 NO 1, Gx65 NO 2, Radar Altimeter, Annunciator, Glideslope, but
the main and most used GPS was and is a 195, 295, 196, 296 in that order of
purchace. Outside of the comm the portables have a lot more features. Look at
these closely before you buy a GX 60 or 430.

(PInc972390) wrote in message ...

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup.

I have a GX 60 NO 1, Gx65 NO 2, Radar Altimeter, Annunciator, Glideslope, but
the main and most used GPS was and is a 195, 295, 196, 296 in that order of
purchace. Outside of the comm the portables have a lot more features. Look at
these closely before you buy a GX 60 or 430.

Yes, I know I could buy a 296 and a 196 for backup for what it would
cost merely to install an IFR panel GPS, let alone buy the box. But
it's not a legal replacement for ADF and DME. Neither is my M1 Loran
but it's more accurate and useful than either most of the time. FYI,
all the places I care about going have GPS Overlays of their ADF
approaches so I don't need the actual ADF.

-cwk.

C Kingsbury wrote:
(PInc972390) wrote in message ...


My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup.



I have a GX 60 NO 1, Gx65 NO 2, Radar Altimeter, Annunciator, Glideslope, but
the main and most used GPS was and is a 195, 295, 196, 296 in that order of
purchace. Outside of the comm the portables have a lot more features. Look at
these closely before you buy a GX 60 or 430.


Yes, I know I could buy a 296 and a 196 for backup for what it would
cost merely to install an IFR panel GPS, let alone buy the box. But
it's not a legal replacement for ADF and DME. Neither is my M1 Loran
but it's more accurate and useful than either most of the time. FYI,
all the places I care about going have GPS Overlays of their ADF
approaches so I don't need the actual ADF.

I musta missed something. I thought you were VFR only and not planning to get an
instrument rating. If that's the case, why do you care about legal replacement
for ADF and DME. VFR, everything's legal (well, almost). Ditto the GPS overlays.

Are you trying to make the plane IFR-capable even though you will never use the
capability, just to improve resale value?

(1) rethink whether you want an instrument rating. It's a good investment.
(2) if you still say you don't want the rating, get a panel-mount GPS so you
don't have wires strung all over and stuff clamped to the yoke.
(3) get the GPS IFR certified only if it's a really, really small cost
increment. You won't get your money back at resale.

Dave

If you are budget conscious, it may make more sense to find the best deal
you can on an acceptable IFR GPS.

King, Garmin, Apollo whatever works. Just make sure that its worth the
price of installing the thing. No point installing something worthless.

Talk to the different avionics shops until someone with a lot more money
trades in a reasonably new unit on the latest thing. Then grab it.





"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
om...
Googling the group yielded little so here goes...

1979 172, overall average condition with mostly original radios and
wiring (one RT-385 recently replaced by a TKM radio, M1 Loran from a
few centuries ago)

The Cessna 300 ADF has gone flaky. The box tests fine on the bench
which suggests a wild goose chase may be in store to find the
gremlins. One of the two ILS approaches at my home field require ADF,
and a few fields I go to are ADF/GPS-only so I need one of the two.

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup. I'll get
legal ADF and DME capability not to mention a moving map. Trying to
convince 4 other partners this is a good idea b/c it will make it
easier to sell shares in the future and even if they are VFR-only the
moving map is a big plus.

The local flight school says they've been spending an average of $6000
to do this with their birds at the local shop. Those of you who've
done this recently, any thoughts?

Bet,
-cwk.

Also recall that $6000 is about 15% of the value of a basic IFR 172. If
you are going to even bother, try finding a used Garmin 430.
Installation and database update cost is going to be the same in either
case, but the Garmin software can be updated ad nauseum... not so with
the GX series.

On 24 Aug 2004 12:15:08 -0700, (C Kingsbury) wrote:

Googling the group yielded little so here goes...

1979 172, overall average condition with mostly original radios and
wiring (one RT-385 recently replaced by a TKM radio, M1 Loran from a
few centuries ago)

The Cessna 300 ADF has gone flaky. The box tests fine on the bench
which suggests a wild goose chase may be in store to find the
gremlins. One of the two ILS approaches at my home field require ADF,
and a few fields I go to are ADF/GPS-only so I need one of the two.

My idea is to find a good used Apollo GX-50/GX-60 unit and replace the
ADF. No need to touch the Loran, it makes a good backup. I'll get
legal ADF and DME capability not to mention a moving map. Trying to
convince 4 other partners this is a good idea b/c it will make it
easier to sell shares in the future and even if they are VFR-only the
moving map is a big plus.

The local flight school says they've been spending an average of $6000
to do this with their birds at the local shop. Those of you who've
done this recently, any thoughts?

Bet,
-cwk.

Whether or not the Apollo units are a good idea or not is not something I
will address. Don't forget that they are essentially "orphaned" units.
Also, to be legal, there may be instances where you need to have the ADF
equipment on board.

However, a recent install of my CNX80 was priced at 45 man-hours for the
installation (@ $60/hr = $2700). In addition to that labor cost, there was
also about $1,000 in extra equipment required not included in the price of
the CNX80.

I believe the unit you are considering will also require remote
annunciators of some sort, which would cost in addition to the labor and
cost of the unit itself.

$6,000 sounds about right. (My CNX80, installed, was about double that).


--ron

Whether or not the Apollo units are a good idea or not is not something I
will address. Don't forget that they are essentially "orphaned" units.
Also, to be legal, there may be instances where you need to have the ADF
equipment on board.


I thought that an IFR GPS was a legal substitute for an ADF in ALL cases????

Dude wrote:
Whether or not the Apollo units are a good idea or not is not something I
will address. Don't forget that they are essentially "orphaned" units.
Also, to be legal, there may be instances where you need to have the ADF
equipment on board.


I thought that an IFR GPS was a legal substitute for an ADF in ALL cases????

An IFR GPS *with a current database* is a leagal substitue for an ADF.

(Currently in MI with a current Garmin West/Central DB. Guess where the
West/Central DB ends. )

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR