Engine Preheater - any good?

"Jim Rosinski" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's what I did:
http://www.burningserver.net/rosinsk...86.640x480.jpg
Cheap 1500 Watt heater from Kmart fits neatly between nosewheel and
lower cowl.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the heater you point to strikes me as
another typical aviation ripoff: Take the normal price you'd expect
something to cost (in this case I'd say around $30), then multiply by
10 to get the actual price because it's for an airplane.

What do you think it costs to build 100 units vs. 20000 units that K-mart
sells?
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the heater you point to strikes me

as another typical aviation ripoff: Take the normal price you'd
expect something to cost (in this case I'd say around $30), then
multiply by 10 to get the actual price because it's for an
airplane.

What do you think it costs to build 100 units vs. 20000 units that
K-mart
sells?

This "economy of scale" argument doesn't always explain the perceived
excess in price. Some things in aviation really are ripoffs. Sort of
like the saying: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not
really out to get you".

Jim Rosinski

"Jim Rosinski" wrote in message
oups.com...
Matt Barrow wrote:

This "economy of scale" argument doesn't always explain the perceived
excess in price. Some things in aviation really are ripoffs.

Agreed, so how does that translate to the item in question?

Sort of
like the saying: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not
really out to get you".

The only rip-off is the prices for parts/equipment mandated by the FAA
standards (i.e., seat belts that cost ten times more than for automobiles,
even though they are the exact same thing.

And I know for a fact that they are trying to get me. But they won't get me;
I'm on a mission from god.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

Matt Barrow wrote:

This "economy of scale" argument doesn't always explain the
perceived excess in price. Some things in aviation really are
ripoffs.

Agreed, so how does that translate to the item in question?

The item in question appears to be an electric space heater you could
buy at Kmart, Target, etc. for $20, with a couple of hoses attached to
fit in the cowling of an airplane. The price is $299. If I'm right and
the profit margin is around 1000% per unit, this strikes me as
excessive. And THREE HOURS to preheat?!?! The Kmart preheating solution
I mentioned in an earlier article can do it in two or less.

The only rip-off is the prices for parts/equipment mandated by the
FAA standards (i.e., seat belts that cost ten times more than for
automobiles, even though they are the exact same thing.

So NOTHING in aviation outside of FAA mandates is a ripoff? You might
want to rethink, or rephrase, those words.

Jim Rosinski

Matt Barrow wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something, but the heater you point to strikes me

as another typical aviation ripoff: Take the normal price you'd
expect something to cost (in this case I'd say around $30), then
multiply by 10 to get the actual price because it's for an
airplane.

What do you think it costs to build 100 units vs. 20000 units that
K-mart
sells?

This "economy of scale" argument doesn't always fully explain the
perceived excess in price. Some things in aviation really are ripoffs.
Sort of like the saying: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean
they're not really out to get you".

Jim Rosinski

Bob,

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to install a preheat system on the
airframe.. Our shop has installed 15 or 20 in the last few years with
7 or so being Reiff's. We have never had one go bad (Except the one we
installed wrong!). For the $100 or so dollar more it cost you get a
great product without ANY hassle. Just plug it in.

I have read the notes about the Wal-mart and Kmart heaters but what do
you do one the ramp away from home? With the wind up above 20kts or so
I would like it's hard to use something you have to setup each time you
wish to use it.

If you choose to have something installed let your shop order it they
can make a little money and you pay the same price. It should take
about 2.5 hours to install and do the paper work.

Jon

Bob...

I work in medicine and I got an old patient air blanket warmer for free - a
model that had been discontinued by the manufacturer. It's about 800 watts
and has a blower and heater and 3 inch plastic hose and is set at about 40
degrees C or 102 degrees F. Its a very sturdy metal floor unit with wheels.
My R182 is hangered (unheated).

I modified the heater by putting an intake plastic hose rather than having
it take air from the room. I stick the output hose in the oil dipstick
access and the input hose in the left cowl flap and I leave it on all winter
and I cover the cowl with a quilt.

The coldest mornings here are about - 25 degrees F but with this rig, the
engine is always a balmy 70-75 degrees and it heats the whole compartment -
engine, battery - everything.

I have pulled the plane out in - 25 degree weather and fired it up with a
couple shots on the primer like it was the fourth of july.

It soulds like the heater you are considering is similar to this.

Regards,

DB

I work in medicine, too (Biomedical Engineer). Yeah, a scrapped Bair Hugger
would be great, but I don't have one. That's basically what this gadget is,
although we had a partnership meeting last night and agreed to engineer
something ourselves as an initial attempt. I'm going out shortly to look
for a suitable $20 heater. I have a remote-sensing thermostat I can use to
maintain the temp of the distal end of the ductwork (that's the end that'll
be inside the engine compartment) to a level that should prevent starting
any fires.

I'll report back.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Doodybutch" wrote in message
...
Bob...

I work in medicine and I got an old patient air blanket warmer for free -
a
model that had been discontinued by the manufacturer. It's about 800
watts
and has a blower and heater and 3 inch plastic hose and is set at about 40
degrees C or 102 degrees F. Its a very sturdy metal floor unit with
wheels.
My R182 is hangered (unheated).

I modified the heater by putting an intake plastic hose rather than having
it take air from the room. I stick the output hose in the oil dipstick
access and the input hose in the left cowl flap and I leave it on all
winter
and I cover the cowl with a quilt.

The coldest mornings here are about - 25 degrees F but with this rig, the
engine is always a balmy 70-75 degrees and it heats the whole
compartment -
engine, battery - everything.

I have pulled the plane out in - 25 degree weather and fired it up with a
couple shots on the primer like it was the fourth of july.

It soulds like the heater you are considering is similar to this.

Regards,

DB