Grandmother Goes Down at the Pole

"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
news


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Bruce Hamilton wrote:

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West
Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US
base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as
required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance
or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who
gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been
been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected,
so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base.
He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough
fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.


Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are
talking
about.


Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

US and New Zealand officials said Johanson was ill-prepared to make
the polar flight and it was irresponsible for him to set out.

Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said US and New
Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had
taken a very irresponsible approach.

She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South
Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New
Zealand authorities would have stopped it.

"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in
mind and that was to fly over the South Pole.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed and
you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy

Jimmy Galvin wrote:


Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed and
you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy


If you say so Jimmy then it must be true. LOL

Is it so very very hard to admit when one is mistaken?

Bruce wins this one.

Yeah, Jerry go ahead and belittle me now.


"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
nk.net...


Jimmy Galvin wrote:


Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed
and
you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy


If you say so Jimmy then it must be true. LOL

Robert Loer wrote:
Is it so very very hard to admit when one is mistaken?

Bruce wins this one.

Yeah, Jerry go ahead and belittle me now.



Is your name Jimmy???? I have not seen you contribute anything to this
thread, did I miss your posts somewhere???
I have no problem with Bruce, he believes what he believes and I believe what I
believe. We just don't agree. I know Jon and how much planning goes into each
of his trips. What do you know Robert other that what you read? It is easy to
say what should have, could have been done after it is all over. Should I have
said to Bruce that he did not know what he was talking about? NO, that was to
strong but I still stand on the armchair quarterback part. At least Bruce was
not saying the ridiculous things that were being said here by others like he
refused to pay for fuel offered.
Once again Robert what is is that I am mistaken about?

Jerry



"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
nk.net...


Jimmy Galvin wrote:


Jerry:
You have stretched this about as far as possible. Your logic is flawed

and

you are coming across as just plane silly.
Jimmy



If you say so Jimmy then it must be true. LOL

In article ,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Referring to yourself are you?

Mr Hamilton's post is the best summary of the facts I have seen.

Antarctic flying conditions are so unpredictable that it is not unusual
for planes to have to fly all the way down and all the way back without
landing if the weather closes in in the few hours that it takes to fly
out of Christchurch.

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On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:49:56 +1300, Mainlander *@*.* wrote:

In article ,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Referring to yourself are you?

Mr Hamilton's post is the best summary of the facts I have seen.

Antarctic flying conditions are so unpredictable that it is not unusual
for planes to have to fly all the way down and all the way back without
landing if the weather closes in in the few hours that it takes to fly
out of Christchurch.


The LC-130's have a PSR of approx 4 hrs out from CHC.
At that time, they must commit or return.

I am very aware of one instance where one was past PSR and declared an
emergency. Mac Tower said return to CHC as they could not handle it.
Rapid calculations were made and it was found they barely had enough
fuel to reach NZ.

As it turned out, the pilot, also the CO of VXE-6 at the time, had
enough fuel to make one only shot at landing at Dunedin's Momona
Airport. The FE. a family friend, after the flight returned to CHC
said in all his years of flying, which included that year being his
approx 8th Antarctic season, he'd never had such a close shave.

What saved their bacon was the CO had taken part in an exchange
programme with the RNZAF and had flown into Momona several times in
Kiwi C-130's so he knew the approach etc.

I was at the hanger waiting with the men and women of 6 waiting for
this flight to make it back to NZ as my fiance was on this flight .
We all knew there was the risk of ditching.

For those that remember the mid-winter mail drops, the C-141-B's on
the Pole run were refuelled three times in mid-air by a KC-10.

I've known many pilots that have served in 6 and the USAF. None will
tell you it's a breeze flying the Antarctic route.

Some may remember the crash when a JATO bottle wrenched loose on
takeoff and the subsequent crash of the plane that went in to rescue
to the original crew. [I think I still have the photos of this
somewhere].
Then the crash of a further plane that went in a few years later - a
flight several friends died or were badly injured in.

Cath

In article ,
says...
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 08:49:56 +1300, Mainlander *@*.* wrote:

In article ,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Referring to yourself are you?

Mr Hamilton's post is the best summary of the facts I have seen.

Antarctic flying conditions are so unpredictable that it is not unusual
for planes to have to fly all the way down and all the way back without
landing if the weather closes in in the few hours that it takes to fly
out of Christchurch.


The LC-130's have a PSR of approx 4 hrs out from CHC.
At that time, they must commit or return.

I am very aware of one instance where one was past PSR and declared an
emergency. Mac Tower said return to CHC as they could not handle it.
Rapid calculations were made and it was found they barely had enough
fuel to reach NZ.

As it turned out, the pilot, also the CO of VXE-6 at the time, had
enough fuel to make one only shot at landing at Dunedin's Momona
Airport. The FE. a family friend, after the flight returned to CHC
said in all his years of flying, which included that year being his
approx 8th Antarctic season, he'd never had such a close shave.

What saved their bacon was the CO had taken part in an exchange
programme with the RNZAF and had flown into Momona several times in
Kiwi C-130's so he knew the approach etc.

I was at the hanger waiting with the men and women of 6 waiting for
this flight to make it back to NZ as my fiance was on this flight .
We all knew there was the risk of ditching.

For those that remember the mid-winter mail drops, the C-141-B's on
the Pole run were refuelled three times in mid-air by a KC-10.

I've known many pilots that have served in 6 and the USAF. None will
tell you it's a breeze flying the Antarctic route.

Some may remember the crash when a JATO bottle wrenched loose on
takeoff and the subsequent crash of the plane that went in to rescue
to the original crew. [I think I still have the photos of this
somewhere].
Then the crash of a further plane that went in a few years later - a
flight several friends died or were badly injured in.

There was a minor incident with a plane just a couple of weeks back when
a ski came apart as they were preparing to take off, no problems but they
had to fly parts in to fix it up.

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