audio of VFR pilot in IFR condictions

I thought is wasn't very helpful for them to ask him to fiddle with his
transponder and switch frequencies, last thing a pilot who is struggling to
maintain control needs is distraction.

I looked up the plane, (see link above). It was a 172P so I wonder if he
really was rolling or only felt like it. If it had been any other airplane,
this tape probably wouldn't have been of such a successful outcome.

--
Roger Long
Cecil E. Chapman wrote in message
m...
Interesting link.

What confuses me is that the purpose of the clip (presumably) is to show
an
example of exceptional assistance from a controller, yet, while passing
the
pilot to a controller on another frequency the original controller can be
heard saying that he is passing on a pilot who is squawking 1200 when in
fact they had asked him (several times and he eventually complied) to
change
his squawk to 7700. Eventually they corrected this error.

The other thing that bugs me is that the VFR pilot (like another poster
has
already said) really received very little useful control input (aside from
the first instruction to break the stall) and instrument interpretation
instructions. At one point the VFR pilot was simply told to "just fly
straight and level" when the pilot found himself in IMC again. I can
think
of a plethora of other suggestions that might have been made to the VFR
pilot, on how exactly he should interpret 'straight and level' using his
instruments and more importantly how to make turns at a bank and turn rate
that is appropriate to being in IMC. All of which could be explained
quickly without overwhelming the pilot.

I was surprised to learn that one of the controllers at another airport
I've
flown to in the past, actually had never been a pilot NOR ever BEEN IN a
G.A. aircraft.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text
at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

On 2003-12-25 15:23:45 -0800, "Cecil E. Chapman" said:

The other thing that bugs me is that the VFR pilot (like another poster has
already said) really received very little useful control input (aside from
the first instruction to break the stall) and instrument interpretation
instructions. At one point the VFR pilot was simply told to "just fly
straight and level" when the pilot found himself in IMC again. I can think
of a plethora of other suggestions that might have been made to the VFR
pilot, on how exactly he should interpret 'straight and level' using his
instruments and more importantly how to make turns at a bank and turn rate
that is appropriate to being in IMC. All of which could be explained
quickly without overwhelming the pilot.

There's no requirement for ATS types to know anything about flying airplanes, and they should not try to give flight instruction over the radio. For similar reasons, I do not attempt to provide weather briefings or radar vectors.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

ATC trainees are taught that the pilot is responsible for the safety of the
airplane and the controller is responsible for the safety of the airport -
period...
Denny
"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
news:2003122517430716807%lfransson@comcastnet...
On 2003-12-25 15:23:45 -0800, "Cecil E. Chapman"
said:

The other thing that bugs me is that the VFR pilot (like another poster
has
already said) really received very little useful control input (aside
from
the first instruction to break the stall) and instrument interpretation
instructions. At one point the VFR pilot was simply told to "just fly
straight and level" when the pilot found himself in IMC again. I can
think
of a plethora of other suggestions that might have been made to the VFR
pilot, on how exactly he should interpret 'straight and level' using his
instruments and more importantly how to make turns at a bank and turn
rate
that is appropriate to being in IMC. All of which could be explained
quickly without overwhelming the pilot.

There's no requirement for ATS types to know anything about flying
airplanes, and they should not try to give flight instruction over the
radio. For similar reasons, I do not attempt to provide weather briefings
or radar vectors.

--
Larry Fransson
Seattle, WA

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 08:31:34 -0500, "Dennis O'Connor"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

ATC trainees are taught that the pilot is responsible for the safety of the
airplane and the controller is responsible for the safety of the airport -
period...

Perhaps. But that would run counter to FAA Order 7110.65's mandate
for ATC to issue Safety Alerts:
http://www2.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp2/atc0201.html#2-1-6

Dennis O'Connor wrote:

ATC trainees are taught that the pilot is responsible for the safety of the
airplane and the controller is responsible for the safety of the airport -
period...

If you are VFR. If you are IFR I also am largely responsible for your
safety as well.

"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
m

I was surprised to learn that one of the controllers at another
airport I've flown to in the past, actually had never been a pilot
NOR ever BEEN IN a G.A. aircraft.

Why was that surprising?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"John T" wrote in message ews.com...
"Cecil E. Chapman" wrote in message
m

I was surprised to learn that one of the controllers at another
airport I've flown to in the past, actually had never been a pilot
NOR ever BEEN IN a G.A. aircraft.

Why was that surprising?


Hi, I don't have a pilot's license and nor have I started training for
one, but does the radio chatter usually sound this clear? I was
discouraged a little bit earlier in the week when I was listening in
to some ATC that I couldn't understand! Thanks...

Hi, I don't have a pilot's license and nor have I started training for
one, but does the radio chatter usually sound this clear? I was
discouraged a little bit earlier in the week when I was listening in
to some ATC that I couldn't understand! Thanks...

No, it doesn't usually sound this clear. But the only the first section of
the recording was recorded from the radio. The middle section was between
two different ATC facilities, and was thus took place over a dedicated
telephone line. The final section was recorded when the pilot called in for
a weather briefing later that day.

The radio section did seem remarkably clear. It's possible that it has been
run through some filters to clean it up a bit. Maybe the pilot happened to
be right on top of receiving station for the particular facility.

The radio is almost completely impossible to understand when you first start
to listen. The sound quality isn't great, people talk very quickly,
standard radio procedures are soundly ignored, and many phases are
abbreviated in some way. If you happen to know any pilots, it might help to
have one of them listen in with you and translate a bit, but even that isn't
all that necessary.

The good news is that once you begin to get used to the things that are
commonly said on the radio, it will begin to make much more sense to you.
Then when you begin your training, you will be way ahead of the pack when it
comes to radio work.

You are going to begin flight training, aren't you? You know you want to do
it!

Why was that surprising?


It isn't a surprise, 'now', but when I was a primary student (and learned
that there was no requirement that controllers to be pilots too) I was
surprised, because I had just presumed that they 'must' be pilots, that's
all....

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Why was that surprising?

--
John T

Me again..... I just think that it would be prudent to have controllers
that were also pilots, just as it is prudent for (at least it is required by
law, in parts of California) food service workers to have some training in
handling choking problems.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures complete with pictures and text at:
www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -