OK, what the hell has happened to the Brits?

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal (down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
In article , "Paul Sengupta"
writes:

As pointed out, gun crime only really affects those "in or related to
the business". The general population can go about their business
without even thinking that anyone else has a gun. Before or after.

You have to realise that the way of life is different over here.


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat. Two thirds of these
offences (6950), involved the firearm being used as a 'threat', but in
around 17% (1750) the firearm was fired at a person and an injury
resulted.
Three quarters of these cases the injury was slight, but in one quarter it
was more serious, including 80 incidents where the injury proved fatal
(down
from 95 recorded in 2001-2). Nearly two thirds of firearms offences
occurred
in just three metropolitan forces, The Metropolitan Police, Greater
Manchester Police and West Midlands Police.

In most parts of England and Wales the incidence of firearm offences is
very
low, and the chances of becoming a victim of a shooting are very low. The
risk of a fatal shooting in England and Wales is still one of the lowest
in
the world.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/pdf/1sectionone.pdf

Murder Victims USA






by Weapon, 1998-2002





Weapons
1998
1999
2000
20011
2002















Total
14,209
13,011
13,230
14,061
14,054

Total firearms:
9,220
8,480
8,661
8,890
9,369

Handguns
7,405
6,658
6,778
6,931
7,176

Rifles
546
400
411
386
480

Shotguns
626
531
485
511
476

Other guns
16
92
53
59
74

Firearms, type not stated
627
799
934
1,003
1,163

Knives or cutting






instruments
1,890
1,712
1,782
1,831
1,767

Blunt objects (clubs,






hammers, etc.)
750
756
617
680
666

Personal weapons (hands,






fists, feet, etc.)2
959
885
927
961
933

Poison
6
11
8
12
23

Explosives
10
0
9
4
11

Fire
132
133
134
109
104

Narcotics
33
26
20
37
48

Drowning
28
28
15
23
18

Strangulation
213
190
166
153
143

Asphyxiation
99
106
92
116
103

Other weapons or






weapons not stated
869
684
799
1,245
869

Dave, you forgot to mention Automobiles.. USA = 110 deaths per day, times
365 days a year, times however many years you want to compare...
You are orders of magnitude more likely to die just crossing the street for
a newspaper at noon than you are to get shot walking through the worst part
of town at 3AM...
denny

Dave wrote:

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...
Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.


a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat.

What does that have to do with Don's statement?

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether...

Don is talking about the lower rate of other crimes, not firearm
crimes. Since (IIRC) the night-time burglary rate in New York is
about 20% of that in London, he has a point -- few people are
likely to climb through a window if they think the occupant has
a shotgun on the other side.

What the Brits have traded (mostly without realizing it) is a
slightly lower gun homicide rate (those previously-legal-gun
owners who go postal) in exchange for a vastly enhanced
rate for burglary and other crime. It seems like a bad bargain
to me.

But I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tony Martin. He
was a home owner who dispatched a low-life home invader
with his shotgun. He was convicted of murder, reduced to
manslaughter on appeal, and denied parole as he was deemed
"a danger to burglars". The public outcry is such that now
37% (BBC Radio 4 poll) think that a law to allow householders
to use any means to confront burglars is called for. So things
may well change for the better.

Too bad you folks are so civilized... You would only have to have a mob tar
and feather one magistrate, to put an end to such rulings... It is terrible
to see our staunch allies in two world wars, emasculated so...

Denny
"Tony Cox" wrote in message
. net...
"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used',
whether...

Don is talking about the lower rate of other crimes, not firearm
crimes. Since (IIRC) the night-time burglary rate in New York is
about 20% of that in London, he has a point -- few people are
likely to climb through a window if they think the occupant has
a shotgun on the other side.

What the Brits have traded (mostly without realizing it) is a
slightly lower gun homicide rate (those previously-legal-gun
owners who go postal) in exchange for a vastly enhanced
rate for burglary and other crime. It seems like a bad bargain
to me.

But I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tony Martin. He
was a home owner who dispatched a low-life home invader
with his shotgun. He was convicted of murder, reduced to
manslaughter on appeal, and denied parole as he was deemed
"a danger to burglars". The public outcry is such that now
37% (BBC Radio 4 poll) think that a law to allow householders
to use any means to confront burglars is called for. So things
may well change for the better.

"Tony Cox" wrote:

Don is talking about the lower rate of other crimes, not firearm
crimes. Since (IIRC) the night-time burglary rate in New York is
about 20% of that in London, he has a point -- few people are
likely to climb through a window if they think the occupant has
a shotgun on the other side.

From what I have seen of New York, it has a large number of high rise
apartment buildings. They would be a big deterrent to burglars in
themselves - anything without a ground floor exit directly to the
outside would make many burglars think twice. My impression is that
London has less of these.

I could be wrong - I haven't lived in either city - but my point is
that you can't draw conclusions like this from the figures, without
knowing whether they have been corrected for this sort of factor. This
is why statistics have a reputation of being deceiving - you can prove
almost anything if you ignore the right factors.

Assuming that the figures and reasons are correct, I don't think that
I like the tradeoff anyway. You may be less likely to be burgled
overall, but it is still much more likely that you will be burgled by
someone with a gun - which makes it much more likely that you will be
killed by a burglar.

In article , "Dave"
writes:


Yes, it is. Strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assualt and
battery,
and stranger rape are far more common than here in the states.

Don

Don't think so.

This is quoted from a Home Office Report (Like Justice Dept)

a firearm offence is any offence in which a firearm is 'used', whether
fired, used as a blunt instrument or in a threat.

So?

I specified strongarm robberies, home invasion robberies, assault and battery,
and stranger rape. None of those involve firearms and all are more common in
Britain and Europe than here. (NOTE: possible language barrier, home
invasion=/=burglary. Home invasion robberies are specifically forcefull
robberies in an occupied dwelling)

Also note that rape overall is more common here, but stranger rape is not.
There might be a reporting difference involved as I do not know how statutory
and date rape are defined and reported in europe.

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

We do not lock our doors... Any invasion of my house requires the purp to
get past the dog... After that I may point out to him that invading my home
is viewed with extreme prejudice...

"Wdtabor" wrote in