Turbo 182: correct mixture for final approach at high altitude?

yes that was the question, I did not see where you said yours was a turbo
charged also, must have over looked it.

yes I have landed to refuel with the DA at 8800 ft.

Is it superior - beats me, I just follow my POH and havnt had a problem yet.

Peter Duniho wrote:



Is what a turbocharged engine also? Both the engine that John Smith is
talking about and the engine that I am talking about are turbocharged, as we
both stated in our posts.

I have taken off with a DA of 8800 ft, full rich and not had a problem in
my
T-arrow I use full rich on take off and landing, as my POH says to do.

Have you landed with a DA of 8800' with the mixture full rich? On my
airplane (and apparently John's), the engine would stop on rollout. That
said, maybe you have a superior fuel system on the Turbo Arrow, or perhaps
the engine is just somehow inherently more immune to overly rich mixtures.

Pete

I have a turbo arrow, my POH also says full rich on take off. Thats what
I use on take off and landing. I do not adjust the miicture untill I am
at cruise altitude.
how come you didnt just set it to full rich like the book suggested?

you either have a fixed or an automatic wastegate, the automatic
wastegate will use the turbo as needed. the key is to fly as the book
says to fly and not try to out guess the airplane.

Barry Klein wrote:

We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich. It restarted without incident, glad we were on the
ground! We had the mixture set about 100 deg rich of peak TIT for
cruise at 9500. How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude? This is not addressed in
the POH. It does say full rich on takoff regardless of airport
elevation. Later that day, when taxiing for takoff, we set 1200 rpm
and leaned for peak rpm, mixture knob was out 1.5-2 inches to achieve
this.

When we returned home to 800' elevation, we checked the idle speed at
full rich, it was about 500 rpm, is this too low?

Thanks,
Barry

Yes. The mixture was too rich.
This is a common problem with big-bore engines when operated
above 3000 MSL.

What we teach at Colorado Pilots Association is to set the
mixture to 15 GPH as you enter the pattern at (near) cruise
power. That way the engine continues to run on the ground. :-)

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Barry Klein wrote:
We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich. It restarted without incident, glad we were on the
ground! We had the mixture set about 100 deg rich of peak TIT for
cruise at 9500. How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude? This is not addressed in
the POH. It does say full rich on takoff regardless of airport
elevation. Later that day, when taxiing for takoff, we set 1200 rpm
and leaned for peak rpm, mixture knob was out 1.5-2 inches to achieve
this.

When we returned home to 800' elevation, we checked the idle speed at
full rich, it was about 500 rpm, is this too low?


Thanks,
Barry


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://www.frii.net/~jer
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

maybe a stupid question, but if its going to quit on you when you go full
rich on landing, then dont it also risk the chance of quitting if you go
full rich on a go around?
unless its just the high power that keeps it running and idle is what
kills it.

wrote:

Yes. The mixture was too rich.
This is a common problem with big-bore engines when operated
above 3000 MSL.

What we teach at Colorado Pilots Association is to set the
mixture to 15 GPH as you enter the pattern at (near) cruise
power. That way the engine continues to run on the ground. :-)

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Barry Klein wrote:
We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich. It restarted without incident, glad we were on the
ground! We had the mixture set about 100 deg rich of peak TIT for
cruise at 9500. How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude? This is not addressed in
the POH. It does say full rich on takoff regardless of airport
elevation. Later that day, when taxiing for takoff, we set 1200 rpm
and leaned for peak rpm, mixture knob was out 1.5-2 inches to achieve
this.

When we returned home to 800' elevation, we checked the idle speed at
full rich, it was about 500 rpm, is this too low?

Thanks,
Barry

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://www.frii.net/~jer
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

In article , Jeff
wrote:

maybe a stupid question, but if its going to quit on you when you go full
rich on landing, then dont it also risk the chance of quitting if you go
full rich on a go around?
unless its just the high power that keeps it running and idle is what
kills it.

Go around on approach (depending on height AGL), you will still have
some air under you and it is amazing how fast your hand will push that
mixture lever forward.

Jeff wrote:
maybe a stupid question, but if its going to quit on you when you go full
rich on landing, then dont it also risk the chance of quitting if you go
full rich on a go around?
unless its just the high power that keeps it running and idle is what
kills it.

Your guesstimation is correct! The higher power can deal with the
enrichened mixture, and your balked landing (go around) will succeed.

Notice that I said below to increase the power, then the mixtu

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Best regards,

Jer/

wrote:

Yes. The mixture was too rich.
This is a common problem with big-bore engines when operated
above 3000 MSL.

What we teach at Colorado Pilots Association is to set the
mixture to 15 GPH as you enter the pattern at (near) cruise
power. That way the engine continues to run on the ground. :-)

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Barry Klein wrote:
We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich. It restarted without incident, glad we were on the
ground! We had the mixture set about 100 deg rich of peak TIT for
cruise at 9500. How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude? This is not addressed in
the POH. It does say full rich on takeoff regardless of airport
elevation. Later that day, when taxiing for takeoff, we set 1200 rpm
and leaned for peak rpm, mixture knob was out 1.5-2 inches to achieve
this.

When we returned home to 800' elevation, we checked the idle speed at
full rich, it was about 500 rpm, is this too low?

Thanks,
Barry

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://www.frii.net/~jer
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

you would think that since its a turbo airplane, cessna would expect it to be
used at high altitude airports so they would have made it so it would not cut
out on landing.

wrote:

Jeff wrote:
maybe a stupid question, but if its going to quit on you when you go full
rich on landing, then dont it also risk the chance of quitting if you go
full rich on a go around?
unless its just the high power that keeps it running and idle is what
kills it.

Your guesstimation is correct! The higher power can deal with the
enrichened mixture, and your balked landing (go around) will succeed.

Notice that I said below to increase the power, then the mixtu

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Best regards,

Jer/

wrote:

Yes. The mixture was too rich.
This is a common problem with big-bore engines when operated
above 3000 MSL.

What we teach at Colorado Pilots Association is to set the
mixture to 15 GPH as you enter the pattern at (near) cruise
power. That way the engine continues to run on the ground. :-)

Of course, if you do a balked landing, you MUST push the mixture
full in after you increase the power for the go around.

Barry Klein wrote:
We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich. It restarted without incident, glad we were on the
ground! We had the mixture set about 100 deg rich of peak TIT for
cruise at 9500. How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude? This is not addressed in
the POH. It does say full rich on takeoff regardless of airport
elevation. Later that day, when taxiing for takeoff, we set 1200 rpm
and leaned for peak rpm, mixture knob was out 1.5-2 inches to achieve
this.

When we returned home to 800' elevation, we checked the idle speed at
full rich, it was about 500 rpm, is this too low?

Thanks,
Barry

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://www.frii.net/~jer
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 197 Young Eagles!

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
you would think that since its a turbo airplane, cessna would expect it to
be
used at high altitude airports so they would have made it so it would not
cut
out on landing.

And yet, this is a common enough issue, with many different makes and models
of turbocharged aircraft.

Why single Cessna out? There's all sorts of inconveniences related to the
technologies used in "modern" aircraft. One of them happens to be the
likelihood of engine stoppage if the mixture is set to full-rich at high
density altitudes. This isn't unique to Cessna, and it seems to me it's
along the lines of "Doc, it hurts when I do this..." joke. Since it "hurts"
when one does that, one just doesn't do that.

Simple enough, IMHO. The main problem is that, for some reason, pilots who
are introduced to turbocharged aircraft are often not told about the need to
avoid full-rich mixture settings at high density altitudes. This was true
of me (I found out myself the hard way...only took two high altitude
landings for me to figure it out though ), and it's apparently true of
other pilots as well.

Pete

In article , Barry
Klein wrote:

How should we have found the correct mixture setting
for power-off final approach, when the turbo is basically adding no
boost and we are at high density altitude?

My best advice is to go to www.avweb.com and read all of John Deakin's
articles on engine operation. These are gems of wisdom that every
flight instructor should have in their kit.

Somewhere I read an article that related that many aircraft
carburetors/injectors are not properly set for idle.

How does it idle? 500 rpm is the bottom end... Another 25 - 30 rpm may help
if it is idling rough...

On the issue of full rich, if you are landing at a low altitude airport then
progressivley enriching the mixture in the descent,arriving at full rich on
short final, makes sense, as the air density in the manifold will be
reasonably high, even after the turbo has spun down and is not boosting
much...
But, if you are landing at an altitude airport, then the throttle pulled
back will allow the turbo to spin down, same as for low altitude airports,
but the intake manifold air density will be low thin and full rich may
lead to a flame out - especially if you have to hit the throttle for a
missed approach, wind shear, etc... Full rich with full throttle is likely
to cause a stumble/stall at that point.... I would tend to keep it
reasonably lean during descent and approach to avoid plug fouling and to
keep it warm, only going to the 'appropriate' takeoff setting on short
final, which is not necessarily full rich at higher altitude airports...
You have already done your homework and know how far in to put the mixture
on short final for the airport you were at... For takeoff, I would run up
to 1800 rpm and lean for best power, knowing that full throttle will enrich
the mixture further, automatically... Just watch your manifold pressure and
cylinder head temps during climbout and richen slightly if needed...
denny

"Barry Klein" wrote in message
om...
We took a newer 182 turbo to a 7000' elevation airport yesterday and
the engine quit at the end of the landing roll. I'm sure the mixture
was way too rich.