Another Frustrated Student Pilot

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


OutofRudder wrote:

nav lights out (aren't they supposed to be disconnected and labeled
inoperative?),

Don't think so, but you can't fly at night without them. Of course, you
shouldn't
be up at night at this stage anyway.

OutofRudder has that right, but probably because he has recently been
studying the fine details of the regs (91.213(d)(3)). As to the second half,
I always steer clear of "of course" and "should" without knowing more
specifics.

-- David Brooks

Radios: Yes!--controlled airports. There are two Class D airports in addition
to the one I fly in and out of within a 15-mile radius. I HAVE a hand-held.
Just because I have a hand-held should not mean that a new soloing pilot should
*knowingly* go up with a known intermittent radio because the people
responsible for maintenance who are aware of the intermittent radio are relying
on the fact that I have a hand-held rather than insisting on repairing the
radio (run-on sentence, but you get the gist). The other student currently
flying the airplane does not have a hand-held.

This area is *busy*. No radio in an emergency is one thing; good experience?
IMHO, having that attitude before leaving the ground about an intermittent
radio *in THIS area* would be stupid. As a CFI, do you send a new solo pilot
up, knowing the radio has failed completely and been so garbled that
controllers are annoyed and remember who you are the instant you call Ground to
taxi to the runway, with the idea that if the radio fails, they can then divert
their attention, eyes, and two hands between flying the airplane, looking for
traffic, and dialing frequencies and working their hand-held?

And yes, I realize that I am not flying at night or using the nav lights, but
they're still supposed to be operable. I felt three months was sufficient time
to either change the bulb, replace the switch, or disconnect and label them per
the regs.

I agree that any one or two issues were less significant, and we did fly the
airplane for three months with them. Coming out of the 100-hr, NONE of those
less significant issues had been resolved and there were more significant new
ones as well. One CFI said to me: "Count up how many strikes you have against
you before you leave the ground and weigh them." The sum of ALL these older
minor and new major strikes after the 100-hr tipped the scales for me. Perhaps
I was naive, but their reaction to my stand on safety was the big surprise (and
disappointment) to me!

My point in all this, again, being that students who quit or move to different
CFIs midstream aren't always acting out of fear of soloing, though that seems
to be the most convenient way for people in certain positions to pass the buck
(not referring to anyone here). Thanks for the replies.
AFSP

Well most all of you know what i went through with my flight school. The
funny thing is they call me and say they finally got an airplane Piper Arrow
$97 & Cessna 172 On the way from some place (not a new one like they were
supposed to get) then they say we will give you a great deal on them well i
go there and my go the rental rates are insane.

I am paying $72 an hour for a 172 they want $90 an hour for an older plane
told them i will not rent from them unless they can be competitive with
others. What about this great deal they offered me for losing the airplane
at the end of my training a week before checkride? no mention of that! I
would rather rent a local plane with fading paint a$72 then pay them $90 for
same type of plane hell they want $67 for a 150 they $52 everyware else. I
don't see them in business long with them rates. Ohh arrow is in the shop
with problems not avaiable yet go figure.

Things break and if you feel it is unsafe don't fly it...................
Use google groups to see about the 150 i thought was unsafe and i refused to
fly & few hours prior to 100 hour inspection compression check they end up
replacing a piston and barrel. i still will not fly that plane still think
it is unsafe! As being a pilot its your call to make the Go or No-Go
decision.

Ohh my old CFI did not get his airline job but he can try back in 6 mo's.

Don't give up i know i had my doubts and was almost ready to give it up but
things worked out and i ended up earning my ticket after lot of
encouragement and advice from the people on usenet. I sat down and adding up
how much i already spent and how much time i put in to it i was at the point
of no return either finish now or spend more time and money later on playing
catch up. I cut my losses with my flight school and went else ware to finish
up there is always another CFI to that is willing to take your money and
another fbo that will rent to you. All i can say is finish it you will be
glad you did nothing like going to the airport with family and friends &
flying



"OutofRudder" wrote in message
...
In response to those who suggested that perhaps the other frustrated
student
was too fearful to proceed, there ARE other things that get in the way of
a
person's desire to fly. Maybe not to the point of making a "promising
student"
quit, but at least to cause a significant setback! Here's my story:

I began airplane instruction in August in a Cessna. No one has been more
devoted than I, beginning with the ground school and getting the written
exam
out of the way, then being available whenever my instructor suggested we
fly
and spending countless hours reading and studying at home.

In October, just after I soloed, little things started to go wrong with
the
airplane, not significant enough to ground us, but things that needed
attention
nonetheless: nav lights out (aren't they supposed to be disconnected and
labeled inoperative?), primer frozen shut (POH says to use the primer, not
pump
the throttle), nosewheel is dry and cracked, and radio was intermittent
and
even cut out completely once on my CFI and me. This was the biggest source
of
worry for ME, as a new solo pilot, not only because I did not want to have
to
deal with a failed radio during initial solo flights, but also because
ATCs
made no secret that they were understandably annoyed with our garbled
radio
transmissions. The last thing a new solo pilot needs is to have ATCs
annoyed
with them! After repeatedly being told to "jiggle the switch" and spray
contact
cleaner into the jacks, they finally got the radio working dependably
again.
The other issues remained unresolved.

Recently, the airplane was down for four days for its 100-hr
inspection/maintenance. My CFI and I were the first scheduled to fly it
afterwards. Not only were none of the previously mentioned squawks
resolved,
but run-up revealed a dead vacuum pump and a significant magneto/plug
problem
on the right with rough-running engine.

At that point, I refused to continue to fly the airplane and wrote a
letter to
my CFI listing my maintenance concerns and referencing how many pilots
have
said "don't ignore what the airplane is telling you!" My CFI forwarded my
letter to the owners of the airplane and the airplane was subsequently
grounded
for another week. I received a copy of the response to my CFI from one of
the
owners. He was defensive about the problems with the airplane and about
the
competency of his mechanic.

But the real kicker was that he made me sound like some kind of wacko for
suggesting that I was "connected enough" with the airplane to hear it
"talking"
to me and went on to point out that it is just a machine and that things
go
wrong and need fixing! Well, DUH! It isn't as if I hear voices!! -- I know
full
well that it is a machine and that things need fixing -- that's PRECISELY
the
point. If those little things that are too insignificant to fix in a
3-month
period are not addressed in a 100-hr, how confident is a student pilot
supposed
to feel about the competency of the maintenance or about what priority
maintenance is given by the CFI, owners, or school?

I don't think it's unusual for some new solo pilots to have some
fears--confidence builds the more you fly. While the CFI and the flight
school
have no control over demons at play inside a student's brain, they ARE
capable
and in control of eliminating as many safety concerns as possible by
assuring
that maintenance issues with the airplane are addressed in a reasonable,
timely
way.

Is it reasonable for a student to expect that airplane coming out of a
100-hr
or an annual should have fewer squawks than it did going in? If old
squawks
remain unaddressed after a 100-hr, should a student take a stand? or
should
he/she ignore their own growing concerns and continue to fly the airplane
because the CFI and the school don't seem concerned? While I did
ultimately
take a stand, I feel it should have been up to my CFI to speak up about
the
maintenance on behalf of ALL the students, not up to one of the students.

In response to my letter, my CFI called to say my letter was forwarded to
the
owners of the airplane and that I needed to find someone else to fly with.
I
also received a cc of the letter the owners wrote back to my CFI and a
refund
of the unused portion of $$ I had paid them. They obviously want nothing
further to do with me -- why? for taking a stand about my own safety?

I need more solo, the cross-countries, night and hood time. I have other
options available ... but my point in writing all of this is that things
that
halt a student's progress are not always in the head of the student. CFIs
and
flight schools drop the ball holding up responsibilities on their end too,
even
with the most promising students! It is discouraging, to say the least,
when
you are motivated to push ahead but find yourself having to make the
decision
to leave and go elsewhere or to quit.

Another Frustrated Student Pilot

OutofRudder wrote:

I
also received a cc of the letter the owners wrote back to my CFI and a refund
of the unused portion of $$ I had paid them. They obviously want nothing
further to do with me -- why? for taking a stand about my own safety?

It occurs to me that the owners may have decided to take the plane off the line
with this many problems with it. Perhaps they're losing money. Just a guess, and
you'll know it's wrong if they rent the plane to someone else.

Hey, at least you got a refund. Some people have been cheated out of the unused
bank money.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."