Denver Terminal Area Chart Question - BVR vor/dme

Yes, I did read the post.

Actually, I said: "magnetic deviation", which is probably a meaningless term
but which was the only one that came to mind.

Jeppesen uses the term "variation", then relates it to "magnetic" in the
instructions.

Neither of which is important to the usability of the plotter.

The plotter has a rotating protractor which allows for direct reading of a
course, and it has the additional variation scale which can be used to input
course corrections and still allow direct reading of the course. You would
normally use this variation scale for magnetic variation.

But you don't have to! You could also use it to give a direct read simply if
you decided: "Hey, it's Tuesday. I think I'll fly five degrees west of the
actual course!"

Now, as I have mentioned on several occasions, I am still in the wannabe
category, anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Light Sport Pilot
certificate.

Sometimes I know or come across some information that might be useful to
some in this group. I then share that information. And if I am incorrect, I
am appreciative when someone corrects me and provides the correct
information.

You made the statement: "The VOR declinations aren't necessarily the
magnetic variation for the area." This was something I have not yet learned
about, so I didn't know it. And after your post, I still don't know it. But
that lack of knowledge doesn't change the validity or worth of the
information I posted.

So, if you feel compelled to post: "Nah, nah, nah, your wrong and I'm
right", knock yourself out. But please don't be surprised if you find your
posts treated with absolutely no respect...





"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
May I suggest you consider picking up a Jeppesen Sanderson PJ-1 Plotter.
It's truly a handy tool!


Did you bother to read the post? The VOR declinations aren't necessarily
the
magnetic variation for the area.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message ...
You made the statement: "The VOR declinations aren't necessarily the
magnetic variation for the area." This was something I have not yet learned
about, so I didn't know it. And after your post, I still don't know it. But
that lack of knowledge doesn't change the validity or worth of the
information I posted.

Actually it does. If you understood what I was saying you'd understand that
your suggestion yields an inaccurate solution. The original poster specifically
said that the the VOR's in the area had not been realigned to magnetic north

So, if you feel compelled to post: "Nah, nah, nah, your wrong and I'm
right", knock yourself out. But please don't be surprised if you find your
posts treated with absolutely no respect...

That wasn't my intent. I just couldn't understand why you would make a statement
that was clearly wrong given the posts you were responding to.

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message link.net...
I know that I can look up each VORs magnetic variation setting on
airnav.com, but what if that wasn't available?

As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

My first cross-country I planned without using the A/FD. My
instructor gently pointed out that, on the radial I had planned for,
this particular VOR was unusable. Oops!

After that, I went so far as to draw the range arcs around the VORs in
my neighborhood, using the info in the A/FD. I was shocked at how
some rather large arcs were blocked by mountains below certain flight
elevations.

Kev

"Kevin Darling" wrote in message m...
"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message link.net...
I know that I can look up each VORs magnetic variation setting on
airnav.com, but what if that wasn't available?

As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

You'll need the A/FD anyhow. Not all VOR's are usable in all directions/altitudes.
If you think just because it's on the chart that you're OK, you're going to be disappointed
sooner or later.

My first solo XC, the VOR at the destination airport for my first leg was out of service
(good thing I checked NOTAM's). This meant a dead reckoning leg for 2/3 of the
second leg (nowhere's land eastern Wyoming and Colorado, not even anything to use
for pilotage until I crossed a dry river perpendicular to my flight path that ran through
my destination). My instructor and I felt confident I could handle it.

As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

This thread has been brutal for me, but I must confess that I'm still lost.
I sat down with a CFI and the A/FD this afternoon, and looked for the
section on VORs. I found lots of VOR check points and test facilities, but
I couldn't find anything that listed all the VORs and their declination
settings.

So fine, I stipulate that I never graduated from junior high school (let
along high school), that my parents were niether married nor (in my father's
case) mammals, that 2 or 3 degress won't make that much of a difference, and
that I am so stupid that I have no place in the vaunted intelligensia that
is the GA community in general and this newsgroup in particular. So now
that the flaming is hopefully out of the way for daring to ask the question,
where do I find these things? Surely it can't be that they list these
things in some editions of the AF/D, but not in the one that covers
Pennsylvania. Yet honestly, I couldn't find it and the CFI said that he'd
never even heard of such a thing.

By the way, I'm not training with this particular CFI, so you can't flame me
by saying that my CFI is a retard. He just happened to be around the FBO
this afternoon and I took the oppotunity to ask him about this. Informative
responses appreciated. Insulting ones anticipated.

What you need to do is jump back into the A/FD with the understanding that
there is no list, per se.

VOR's and NDB's are interspersed with the airports, in alphabetical order by
name (not ID).

For example, here in Chicago we have a "Northbrook" VOR, ID = OBK. It is
listed between Newark (airport) and Olney-Noble (airport) in the Illinois
section. Magnetic Variation is included in the listing.

As part of the ILS system at Midway Airport, there is an NDB named KEDZI, ID
= MX. It is listed between Kankakee (airport) and Kewanee Muni in the
Illinois section.

Hope this helps...


"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message
link.net...
As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

This thread has been brutal for me, but I must confess that I'm still
lost.
I sat down with a CFI and the A/FD this afternoon, and looked for the
section on VORs. I found lots of VOR check points and test facilities,
but
I couldn't find anything that listed all the VORs and their declination
settings.

So fine, I stipulate that I never graduated from junior high school (let
along high school), that my parents were niether married nor (in my
father's
case) mammals, that 2 or 3 degress won't make that much of a difference,
and
that I am so stupid that I have no place in the vaunted intelligensia that
is the GA community in general and this newsgroup in particular. So now
that the flaming is hopefully out of the way for daring to ask the
question,
where do I find these things? Surely it can't be that they list these
things in some editions of the AF/D, but not in the one that covers
Pennsylvania. Yet honestly, I couldn't find it and the CFI said that he'd
never even heard of such a thing.

By the way, I'm not training with this particular CFI, so you can't flame
me
by saying that my CFI is a retard. He just happened to be around the FBO
this afternoon and I took the oppotunity to ask him about this.
Informative
responses appreciated. Insulting ones anticipated.

"Geoffrey Barnes" wrote in message
link.net...
As others have mentioned, you should always look up the VORs you're
using in the A/FD, which you should have with you as a student.

This thread has been brutal for me, but I must confess that I'm still
lost.
I sat down with a CFI and the A/FD this afternoon, and looked for the
section on VORs. I found lots of VOR check points and test facilities,
but
I couldn't find anything that listed all the VORs and their declination
settings.

So fine, I stipulate that I never graduated from junior high school (let
along high school), that my parents were niether married nor (in my
father's
case) mammals, that 2 or 3 degress won't make that much of a difference,
and
that I am so stupid that I have no place in the vaunted intelligensia that
is the GA community in general and this newsgroup in particular.

Geoff, don't worry--that last sentence alone establishes that you're smarter
than most of us here, as well as wittier and much more socially adept. :-)

As for your question--as Bill just replied, the A/FD intersperses navaid
listings with the airport listings. In addition, an on-field navaid appears
in the associated airport listing, rather than having its own listing.

It's a good idea to read an A/FD almost cover to cover once, to find all the
good stuff therein. (It's not necessary to read all the airport listings,
but a broad sample is helpful; of the ones you choose, read each
exhaustively.)

--Gary

The other thing you can do is take a sectional, identify all the
VORs then look them up in the AF/D. As already mentioned, the
VORs are interspersed with the airports. I still find the AF/Ds more
interesting to read than the FARs, altho the plot isn't as good.