Private air strip..... yes or no???

Thai

1. Will this be a private airfield and listed on the charts? If so,
probably will have to meet some FAA rules. Have you checked with FAA?

2. If he is just landing on his own property you may have problems?
Again, ask FAA.

3. Have you set down with your neighbor and in a friendly tone tried
to talk out the problem? If you haven't, do that first, as there may
be a mutual solution to your problem that allows him to fly and not a
big bother to you ?

Point out the flight path over your house and see if he can cock his
strip 'catty corner' across his (2600') land. This will take pattern
away from your house and also give him a longer runway. Best of both
worlds.

What activity and type of A/C is planned? You may not even have a
problem.

Can he give you a call on phone prior to taking off so you can expect
the noise?

etc., etc., etc.

If you follow the don't get mad, get even train of activist:

4. Lay out a landing strip on your land pointing at his house. Use a
few times so he gets the idea.

5. Build a two story barn on your property at the end of his strip.

6. Put a skeet range on your property at the end of his strip )

7. Put up a windmill at the end of his strip to pump water for your
cattle to use.

8. Take up kite flying )

On prevailing wind. I sited a strip a number of years ago and went to
Wx bureau and got the number of days the wind blew from 360 degrees
around the clock for several years. I used the direction where the
wind blew the strongest and runway was built. Now we find that 'every'
day we have a cross wind as the strong winds only blow a few days in
the year and we just land with the these cross winds. Get winds from
Wx bureau and evaluate as possible ammo in your discussion. i.e., if
strong winds are only in winter when you have 6 feet of snow, they are
not a problem for private strip which will never get plowed ) If
this is to be a fair Wx summer strip, check winds for those months.

From my Owners Manuals I used while active as a CFI:

All figures with zero wind.

Cessna 150 (at gross)
``````````````````````````````````
2500 feet elevation 5000 feet elevation

Ground run = 910' Ground run = 1115'
Clear 50' obs = 1660' Clear 50' obs = 1985'

Cessna 172 (at gross)
``````````````````````````````````
2500 feet elevation 5000 feet elevation

Ground run = 1040' Ground run = 1255'
Clear 50' obs = 1910' Clear 50' obs = 2480'

Cessna 182 (at gross)
``````````````````````````````````
2500 feet elevation 5000 feet elevation

Ground run - 845' Ground run = 1015'
Clear 50' obs = 1625' Clear 50' obs = 1990'

Cessna 210 (at gross)
``````````````````````````````````
2500 feet elevation 5000 feet elevation

Ground run = 1325' Ground run = 1600'
Clear 50' obs = 2305' Clear 50' obs = 2855'

All of these figures are for a hard surface runway so have to be
adjusted (increased) for dirt R/W.

Hope some of this errata helps with your problem.

Keep the thread informed how you come out.

Big John

Sometimes you can't win for trying (



On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:21:21 -0500 (EST), "" just an average "
Farlang..." wrote:

Can anyone tell me what criteria, rules, regulations a person needs to
be allowed to construct a private runway on his or her property. I know
there are many factors that are not presently known in this scenario but I
can try to input as much as I know.

----clip----

"Big John" wrote in message

If you follow the don't get mad, get even train of activist:

snip

8. Take up kite flying )


Good ideas so far, but I wouldn't want to try that one. Towing banners I've had
that run in before while towing banners. Unless it's a freakin huge kite with
some heavy duty string, all that's likely to happen is you'll loose your kite.
I did get a few little marks in the fabric where they hit, but that was about
it.

FWIW, the company I flew for had their own private strip, 1500' long and rough
grass. It took them a few years of battleing to get it built, but they did win
out in the final appeals. Even so, we still did our darndest to be good
neigbors, and flew rather unorthadox patterns to keep from disturbing the
neigbors. Did this increase the risk to us in the plane? Slightly, yes, but it
wasn't overly so, and looked at as a necessary tradeoff for the convienience of
the private strip.

I'll second the suggestion to contact your neighbor and talk to him about it
(did you try his doorbell?)

" just an average Farlang..." wrote:

Yesterday I took a flying lesson with a chief piot and he told me a
small plane can lift off after about a thousand feet of runway and
then the maximum climb would be about 500 feet per minute.

A Maule 235 will be off the ground in 250'. It will be about 1,000' up when it
passes over your house. An Aviat Husky will be higher than that. Performance
varies a lot from aircraft to aircraft.

He thought for a plane to stay the necessaary elevation over my property the
pilot is required a total of no less than 4000 feet.

Well, there isn't any regulation specifying a "necessary elevation" when landing
or taking off, so he's wrong there. The FAA *does* specify some requirements for
public use fields, but not for private ones. That instructor may have been
thinking of those.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:21:21 -0500 (EST), "" just an average "
Farlang..." wrote in Message-Id:
bm9yaWtv.2c49808e3f2f35f5431910160ea416b5@1076505 681.nulluser.com:

Can anyone tell me what criteria, rules, regulations a person needs to
be allowed to construct a private runway on his or her property.

The FAA and AOPA can provide that information:

www.faa.gov
www.aopa.org

Visit the web sites, and search for pertinent information. Contact
them by phone, and ask questions.

I know there are many factors that are not presently known in this
scenario but I can try to input as much as I know.

My neighbor owns land that is 2600 feet wide. The elevation is about
3000 feet and the hottest temperature is 91 degrees in the summer. The land
is located in Idaho. The prevailing winds position the optimal take off
direction to be directly over my house about 1500 feet from the
property line. I LOVE airplanes! I worked for Boeing (Lazy B) for the last
fifteen years. I worked at Cessna in Witchita before that. I stop to watch
planes take off and land. I LOVE PLANES!!! But what I don't love is buying 500
acres to finally get some peace and quiet and then having some loud
plane buzz my house at will.

I can see how the threat of aircraft might be disturbing to someone
seeking solitude. But if you are located near a highway, the highway
traffic noise will occur NON STOP day and night continuously.
Aircraft noise, on the other hand, is an infrequent, intermittent
occurrence lasting significantly less than a minute in duration. It
the impact won't be nearly as unpleasant as I think you might be
imagining.

The person wanting to put in the runway has
money to build a 3 floor nice house so I expect they will want to be
socialites and invite all their friends to fly in for a barbacue on the weekend.

Landing aircraft are typically operating at low power in a glide, so
half of the operations will be significantly quieter than you may be
anticipating. Take offs are generally full-power, and can be quite
noisy, but of short duration.

Should your worst case scenario (weekend fly-in barbecue) occur, I
think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how painless it might really
be.

I talked to planning and zoning and they don't even know what
prospective planes will be flown there i.e. ultralites or larger planes that
require longer runways. I would like to think it is being fair for me to
expect no planes flying over my land below 500 feet whether taking off, landing
or pattern flying.

Unfortunately, Code of Federal Regulation Title 14: Aeronautics and
Space, PART 91—GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES, § 91.119 exempts
landing and departing aircraft from the 500' minimum proximity to any
person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.3.10.2.5.10

But I suspect that the environmental impact you are
imagining/anticipating is of a vastly larger magnitude than that which
may actually occur. In any given 24-hour period, given the single
owner commuting to/from work or town, there would likely be a total of
about one minute or two of objectionable noise; that's a very small
proportion.

I bought my land and paid for the use of each and every
acre. If by putting in a runway on the edge of my property that means
they are helping themselves to a sort of "easement" flying a hundred feet
or so over my land that doesn't seem at all fair. I may wish to build a barn,
corral animals (which might go crazy) penned up with planes buzzing
over them.

I understand. I would feel the same. But feelings are no substitute
for hard facts.

A thoughtful neighbor would have contacted the land owners who may be
affected before planning the construction of a runway. He would then
have an opportunity to mollify and assuage the fears of those who may
be adversely impacted. Why not give your neighbor an opportunity to
present his side before getting yourself too worked up over the rumor?
Even if your new neighbor doesn't know how to be neighborly, it
doesn't mean you can't enlighten him, and show him how a responsible
and considerate neighbor should behave in a small community.

Can I get some ideas on what is realistic?

Perhaps.

I don't even know what a common length of runway is but a friend of
mine told me using generic table calculations that a fully loaded small
plane on a hot day could very well need a long take off and after lift
off ....
how long a distance til that plane gets to minimal required elevation?

How long is a piece of string; quantifying such parameters requires
knowledge of the type of aircraft, its load, meteorologic conditions,
pilot proficiency, ...

Yesterday I took a flying lesson with a chief piot and he told me a
small plane can lift off after about a thousand feet of runway and
then the maximum climb would be about 500 feet per minute. He thought
for a plane to stay the necessaary elevation over my property the
pilot is required a total of no less than 4000 feet. The runway will
be a dirt strip which also requires more distance.

That estimate seems in the ball park.

any comments would be appreciated

Take courage in hand, and talk to your neighbor. Quit guessing and
imagining what he has planned. Ask him about the type of aircraft he
intends to operate, the frequency of operations, the time of day/night
of intended operations, how he intends to mitigate the noise impact of
his operations on his neighbors, etc. Tell him of your concerns
regarding safety, livestock impact, noise pollution, ... If he proves
unreasonable, retain an attorney; if he is willing to consider your
needs and accept responsibility for minimizing the negative impact his
intended activities may have, it'll probably work out fine.

If you are training to become a pilot, it might make more sense to
build the runway on a part of your 1.5 mile strip of land, so
operational noise impacts both of you less than it might if the runway
were on his parcel. And sharing the expenses involved in constructing
and maintaining the runway will be half. Who knows, he might be
willing to grant you use his airplane in exchange for use of your
runway: win-win.

I would like to think it is being fair for me to
expect no planes flying over my land below 500 feet

The reg is 500 feet from persons and property, when not taking off or
landing. If an airplane is just flying by there is no minimum altitude
required over the surface.

"just an average Farlang..." wrote in message
news:bm9yaWtv.2c49808e3f2f35f5431910160ea416b5@107 6505681.nulluser.com...
Can anyone tell me what criteria, rules, regulations a person needs to
be
allowed to construct a private runway on his or her property.

The FAA just requires 90 day notice of intent to construct an air strip.
There are no rules or permission required from them. Just notification.

The bigger issue is always the local land use people.

What about a land swap? You buy him land that would offer him a better
runway, away from your house and he gives you his land that joins yours. It
also has certain tax benefits.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

In article bm9yaWtv.2c49808e3f2f35f5431910160ea416b5@1076505 681.nulluser.com,
" just an average " Farlang... wrote:
Can anyone tell me what criteria, rules, regulations a person needs to

[...] An odd question to ask on a pilot newsgroup. A troll?

My neighbor owns land that is 2600 feet wide. [...]
The prevailing winds position the optimal take off
direction to be directly over my house about 1500 feet from the
property
line.

That pretty much describes the airport I fly out of. It's 2450 feet
long, with a river on one end and a road on the other. For a long time
it was one way, with takeoffs to the south. There is a noise sensitive
house straight off the end of the runway. Local procedures call for an
immediate left turnout of about 30 degrees.

With those dimensions there's no reason that any informed pilot (which
should be all of them, at a private airport) would ever be directly over
your house on takeoff. They may land over your house but you won't even
hear them.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

After reading all the posts on this thread, I've almost come to the
conclusion we have a troll here?

1. He won't take advice.
2. Argues with everyone who posts in reply to his initial and
subsequent posts.
3. Hasn't/didn't do his home work if he HAS a problem.

Big John


On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:21:21 -0500 (EST), "" just an average "
Farlang..." wrote:

Can anyone tell me what criteria, rules, regulations a person needs to
be
allowed to construct a private runway on his or her property. I know
there
are many factors that are not presently known in this scenario but I
can
try to input as much as I know.

My neighbor owns land that is 2600 feet wide. The elevation is about
3000
feet and the hottest temperature is 91 degrees in the summer. The land
is
located in Idaho. The prevailing winds position the optimal take off
direction to be directly over my house about 1500 feet from the
property
line. I LOVE airplanes! I worked for Boeing (Lazy B) for the last
fifteen
years. I worked at Cessna in Witchita before that. I stop to watch
planes
take off and land. I LOVE PLANES!!! But what I don't love is buying 500
acres to finally get some peace and quiet and then having some loud
plane
buzz my house at will. The person wanting to put in the runway has
money
to build a 3 floor nice house so I expect they will want to be
socialites
and invite all their friends to fly in for a barbacue on the weekend.

I talked to planning and zoning and they don't even know what
prospective
planes will be flown there i.e. ultralites or larger planes that
require
longer runways. I would like to think it is being fair for me to
expect no
planes flying over my land below 500 feet whether taking off, landing
or
pattern flying. I bought my land and paid for the use of each and every
acre. If by putting in a runway on the edge of my property that means
they
are helping themselves to a sort of "easement" flying a hundred feet
or so
over my land that doesn't seem at all fair. I may wish to build a barn,
corral animals (which might go crazy) penned up with planes buzzing
over
them.

Can I get some ideas on what is realistic?

I don't even know what a common length of runway is but a friend of
mine
told me using generic table calculations that a fully loaded small
plane
on a hot day could very well need a long take off and after lift
off ....
how long a distance til that plane gets to minimal required elevation?


Yesterday I took a flying lesson with a chief piot and he told me a
small plane can lift off after about a thousand feet of runway and
then the maximum climb would be about 500 feet per minute. He thought
for a plane to stay the necessaary elevation over my property the
pilot is required a total of no less than 4000 feet. The runway will
be a dirt strip which also requires more distance.

any comments would be appreciated

I would like to think it is being fair for me to expect no
planes flying over my land below 500 feet whether taking off, landing
or pattern flying.

The applicable federal regulations don't support that
expectation. They permit the pilot to come closer when
landing or taking off. A

It's even worse than that, from the neighbor's point of view. The
neighbor can't build a structure or allow a tree to grow to a height
that obstructs the takeoff.

At Plum Island airport in Newburyport MA, the previous operator owned
the east end of the runway. When a new operator was hired, he (the
eastie) built a raggedy pile on his own bit of runway. I thought it
was rather funny, but the courts didn't, and he had to remove the
pile.



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com