Kerry's coming to OSH

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
[...] I somehow suspect that the United
States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Yes, you're right. Of course it would. Not all enemies are creations of
one's own actions. Often, enemies are created by someone else with a
propaganda machine and an agenda.

Frankly, I think bin Laden's group falls into that category. Sure, we've
screwed up in the Middle East, but a) it's not like they're doing such a
great job of it themselves, and b) we haven't meddled enough to warrant the
kind of religious fervor being directed at us and other Western
civilizations, IMHO (obviously, they would disagree ).

Pete

In article ,
"C J Campbell" wrote:
Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.


As long as the United States remains a free and prosperous nation
willing to stand up to our enemies, we will be despised by someone
always. While the federal government has grown far beyond the limits
provided in the US Constitution, the duty of the federal government to
protect the nation from foreign enemies has always been and will always
be.

Ultimately, the Secret Service wouldn't be doing their job if they
didn't want to keep the President and anyone else they protect in a
sealed box, and those protected public officials or candidates wouldn't
be doing their job if they didn't temper this enthusiasm for security
with their obligation to the people.

As for John Kerry's desire to visit OSH, I'm not impressed, unless you
can tell me that he's visited fly-ins before he became a candidate. A
candidate's willingness to show up for a photo op and good PR doesn't in
any way indicate his attitude toward aviation or anything else.



JKG

I am deeply suspicious of any man like Kerry who incites class warfare, envy
politics, punitive taxation of the most productive, character assassination,
etc., but if he were to come to OSH I would cheerfully show him around and
try to convert him into an airplane nut - not that I have a snowball's
chance in hell of getting near him in the first place...
denny

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in . A
candidate's willingness to show up for a photo op and good PR doesn't in
any way indicate his attitude toward aviation or anything else.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

Lincoln was the one who set it on it's path of overarching power that it
employs today. From that point on, the president was more a ruler than a
governor. But, yes, Browne, like the rest of the anarchist wing of the LP,
have a very superficial view of what causes various problems. Like most
libertarians, they confuse liberty with "license". It's a very childish
perspective.

At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
countries. We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs. We have a
reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong. I'm proud to be an American. I'm grateful that I
live in a land where I can disagree with the government and the majority
and live to talk about it. But at the risk of getting WAY off topic
here, I harbor the opinion that we as a collective nation have gone way
out of our way to rub other peoples noses in our percieved greatness. Up
until this most recent presidential administration, I considered myself
pretty solidly aligned with the Republican party, but the most recent
President and his "Go It Alone" stance that he undertook WELL before
9/11 has led me to reconsider my political affiliations.

Regardless of the international picture, the greatest threat to the
President (historically speaking) has been from citizens of our own
country. I can't recall a single assasination or attempt on a President
that was proven to have happened from the act of a Foreign national.

OK.. enough rambling.. I hope I can afford to make OSH this year. I laid
out last year, and I have to admit.. I really missed it.

Dave

C J Campbell wrote:
"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...

I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...



The Secret Service sends details to each of the likely candidates' homes and
moves in on the nominee the moment the vote is cast, setting up guards and
installing security devices. The nominee is likely to be at the convention,
so he will be surrounded by the SS detail already on station there. The
nominee will not be able to take one step toward the podium to make his
acceptance speech without his bodyguards. The TFR will already be in place
around the convention center and will have been there since before the start
of the convention.

There seems to be this huge misunderstanding that Presidents or candidates
cannot visit airshows without shutting the place down. In fact, they do go
to these events and the Secret Service negotiates security precautions with
the FAA. OSH might be tricky, though. Many aircraft going to OSH are
actually landing at nearby fields. A lot of them have no transponder or
radio, or even any electrical system of any kind. If Kerry or Bush were to
attend an event of this nature it would be over the most vehement objections
of the Secret Service.

If the SS had its way, candidates would only be allowed to campaign from
secure rooms via television feeds with no reporters or anyone else present.
The President would spend his entire career in a sealed box. The Mall and
Capitol Hill would become like Beijing's Forbidden City, with only security
and absolutely essential personnel allowed on the grounds. The Secret
Service understands that this is never going to happen, so they constantly
are negotiating their need for security against the President's need to meet
the public.

Although I voted for him, I have to say that Harry Browne is an idiot. He
believes that the Secret Service is unnecessary and that there would be no
terrorist attacks if the US did not interfere in other countries' affairs.
If government were smaller and less powerful, he believes, then the
President would not be a target for assassins. This is demonstrably stupid.
The government was much smaller and less powerful than what even Browne
advocates when Lincoln was assassinated. I somehow suspect that the United
States would have its foreign enemies no matter what it did.

In article . net,
Dave S wrote:

At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
countries. We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs. We have a
reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

There is a difference between the times when we "meddled" in places that
we shouldn't have, such as in Somolia and in Kosovo, and defending
ourselves, such as in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, either way, that's not
why we're hated. We're hated because we are a free nation and, by that
virtue, a productive nation. Productive nations produce wealth.
Problem is, you have to have freedom to have productivity, and there are
a lot of bad guy dictators out there who won't permit their people to be
freely productive. Almost *ALL* of the countries in the Middle East,
except Israel, are guilty of denying freedom to their people, but the
Islamic countries certainly aren't the only ones who are guilty.

"Meddling" is simply a convenient excuse for foreign leaders to deflect
attention away from the real problem, which is most often those foreign
leaders themselves.



JKG

In article . net,
Dave S wrote:
here, I harbor the opinion that we as a collective nation have gone way
out of our way to rub other peoples noses in our percieved greatness. Up
until this most recent presidential administration, I considered myself
pretty solidly aligned with the Republican party, but the most recent
President and his "Go It Alone" stance that he undertook WELL before
9/11 has led me to reconsider my political affiliations.

I'm not sure who's "going it alone" and how you know that the Bush
administration had a "Go It Alone" policy before 9/11. If you're
referring to the Iraq war, it seems to me that we spent a huge amount of
time screwing around with the United Nations if our policy was going to
be "Go It Alone" regardless of what anyone else said. And last time I
checked the facts, we didn't "Go It Alone" in Iraq or Afghanistan anyway.

Our policy should be "Go It Alone" if that's what's necessary to protect
our own interests. If we aren't willing to "Go It Alone" to protect
ourselves then we will eventually cease to exist as an independent
country.



Regardless of the international picture, the greatest threat to the
President (historically speaking) has been from citizens of our own
country. I can't recall a single assasination or attempt on a President
that was proven to have happened from the act of a Foreign national.

The greatest threat to the President and Congress should be from our own
people, though our kind and generous federal government continues to do
what they can to disarm the population.

The founding fathers intended for the people to be able to forcably
overthrow a corrupt or overreaching government. The US Constitution
specifically prohibts the federal government from engaging in most of
the things that it engages in today. However, the US Constitution, as
all governing documents in any democratic society, is only as good as
the people's will to enforce it. The lure of hand-outs and special
interests is too tempting for most people, and that includes the
aviation community.



JKG

"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...
At the risk of sounding unpatriotic.. I agree with some of what you were
criticizing. America has actively earned the hatred of many abroad by
virtue of our foriegn policy and active meddling in the affairs of other
countries.

Like the UN does every day? (And the rest of the world intervenes through
them)

How about our Foreign aid? Do they mind that meddling? How about the World
Bank?

We have supported former dictators on several occasions who
later we moved to depose when they no longer served our needs.

Like the USSR during WW2?

We have a
reputation for being arrogant, impolite, demanding and hypocritical.

That wounds like the world in general...that same world that never seems to
mind our bailing them out several times in the past 100 years.

"Dave S" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...

A no fly zone at Osh.. just like the no fly zone at FFA...

Dave


SS coverage starts pretty much when the nomination is assured.

Dave S wrote in message link.net...
I was wondering at what point secret service kicked in for potential
candidates.. wouldnt that be the epitome of irony...

It's kicked in. Google news was showing an article earlier today that
the SS has a detail with Kerry now.

So, we now have a TFR in Chief, and an aspiring TFR in Chief, and the
Vice TFR in Chief of course. TFR season here we come!

-Malcolm Teas