Unruly Passengers

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

And he wouldn't cold-cock the guy trying to get out of the plane?
Steven is slipping.


It's his life, if he truly wants to end it that is his right.

Agreed...vehemently. (Though the points made about falling hazards, etc.,
are quite legitimate. His life is his own, but go quietly into that long
good-night..)

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to themselves.
No one can commit suicide without adversely affecting the lives of many
others. (Well, maybe Saddam Hussein could.)

People who wish to kill themselves rarely, perhaps never, stay that way for
long. Those who are stopped are invariably thankful that someone intervened.
A better approach is counseling and help with their problems. Suicide is
always dangerous to others. People are stuck with the chore of cleaning up
afterwards. Everyone has to pay the costs of medical care for botched
suicide attempts, which far outnumber successful suicides. Many would-be
suicides end up permanently disabled, adding a further burden to taxpayers
and insurance payers, often for decades.

Family members and friends are invariably traumatized by the event.
Marriages are broken up and children are raised without parents. The
children of suicides are far more likely to commit suicide themselves when
they get older. Their grades suffer and they become less productive as
adults. Fortunes are wasted on counseling. Many turn to drugs, with
corresponding effects on crime, society, and the economy.

Killing yourself does not make your problems go away. It just transfers them
to someone else. It may come as a shock to you, but most people think it is
better to deal with problems rather than run away from them. The vast
majority of people, even those with terrible, terminal diseases, manage to
get by from day to day and even do something productive. It is an insult to
these brave individuals to suggest that killing yourself might be a better
alternative.

Letting some guy who is drunk, disoriented, or distressed kill himself
'because it his right' is a gross disservice to both the individual and the
community around him.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.


In a free society one's life is their own.



No one can commit suicide without adversely affecting the lives of many
others.


Irrelevant.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.


In a free society one's life is their own.


That would only be true if killing yourself does not make everybody else
less free. Suicide impinges on the freedom of everyone else, who must now
support the suicide's family, educate his children, pay for his medical
bills, and possibly even support him for the rest of his life if he botches
the attempt and merely permanently disables himself. We also have to pay
higher insurance premiums, clean up mess, deal with reduced property values,
and suffer many other economic costs imposed on us by the suicide.

Suicide reduces freedom. It is worth noting that suicide rates are highest
in societies that have the least amount of freedom, as in imperial Rome and
feudal Japan. A society that tolerates or even encourages suicide is the
antithesis of free.

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:49:09 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Suicide reduces freedom.

That must be the reason Arab children are schooled in it. :-(

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

That would only be true if killing yourself does not make everybody else
less free.


In a free society, it doesn't.



Suicide impinges on the freedom of everyone else, who must now
support the suicide's family, educate his children, pay for his medical
bills, and possibly even support him for the rest of his life if he
botches
the attempt and merely permanently disables himself.


In a free society, nobody is forced to support the suicide's family, educate
his children, pay for his medical bills, or support him for the rest of his
life if he botches the attempt and permanently disables himself.



Suicide reduces freedom.


Anyone that believes that does not understand what it means to be free.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

That would only be true if killing yourself does not make everybody else
less free.


In a free society, it doesn't.



Suicide impinges on the freedom of everyone else, who must now
support the suicide's family, educate his children, pay for his medical
bills, and possibly even support him for the rest of his life if he
botches
the attempt and merely permanently disables himself.


In a free society, nobody is forced to support the suicide's family,
educate
his children, pay for his medical bills, or support him for the rest of
his
life if he botches the attempt and permanently disables himself.


An interesting point, but if you do not support the suicide's family and
educate his children, then the suicide himself has decided to doom his
family to poverty or even death. I don't think he has the right to do that
in a free society.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

An interesting point, but if you do not support the suicide's family and
educate his children, then the suicide himself has decided to doom his
family to poverty or even death. I don't think he has the right to do that
in a free society.


I might choose to assist the suicide's family. That's charity, and
altogether different from being forced to support them.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.


In a free society one's life is their own.

And in a proper family setting as well. (Having watched a parent take a year
to die from a brain tumor, I think I can claim a bit of experinces on that.)




No one can commit suicide without adversely affecting the lives of many
others.


Irrelevant.

Quite.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.

This is typical Liberal BS. When I hear someone else tell me how they
are entitled to control my life I see red. I sure couldn't see myself taking
my own life .. but would indeed be willing to defend my freedom against
those wishing to control me. With maximum prejudice.

"Otis Winslow" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to
themselves.

This is typical Liberal BS. When I hear someone else tell me how they
are entitled to control my life I see red.

When somebody commits suicide they are in fact attempting to control your
life. They want you to pay for their problems, raise their kids, pay their
medical bills, etc.

You know, it really amuses me the way some people in this group think I am
an extreme liberal and the others think I am a right wing lunatic. If it
helps you to ignore people by putting labels on them and filing them away,
be my guest. But that does not make the problem go away.

Are you really suggesting that some kid should be allowed to hang himself
because he got a D on his chemistry test -- that he has some kind of right
to do that without interference? If not, at what point do you think the
decision to kill yourself should be left to the individual?