Ramp checked at AVP today

"dave" wrote in message
...

W&B plugged into my GPS. Does that count if I didn't, although I do,
have a paper copy of the W&B?

Only the W&B form signed by a mechanic counts as the legally required W&B --
a GPS database does not suffice.

Does a fresh printout from aeroplanner count as a current chart?

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.
For IFR you would be unable to accept airways clearances or deal with lost
communication procedures without charts, so charts are required there as
part of the requirement for appropriate navigation equipment.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.

I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

(That is, you don't have to carry a chart, but you may not carry a
chart that is out of date.)

And it would seem that, if you irritated the inspector by say refusing
to let go of your pilot certificate, he could declare on the spot
that, obviously, "all necessary information" includes a chart!

Personally, I would rather not take the chance.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...


I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

I know this is a prevalent story, but I have never read of any enforcement
action on this.

It is very clear that the FAA's standard does not require any sectional
chart at all for flight in your traffic pattern or the immediate vicinity of
your airport. Is having an old chart onboard worse than no chart? No.

I always do have current charts onboard for wherever I plan to fly, and when
I fly cross-country I often carry with me expired charts for areas quite a
bit off course but where theoretically I might divert in a doomsday
situation. Does having those just-in-case expired charts make me less
safe? No, of course not.

Again, I do not believe there has ever been an enforcement action on this
issue, nor could/should there be one.

Again, you DO clearly need current IFR charts -- but even there, what's
wrong with carrying expired charts for places you don't plan to go unless
some one-in-a-million weather or mechanical event occurs?

--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Cub Driver wrote:

There is no legal requirement for you to carry VFR charts period -- just a
requirement that you obtain all necessary information before the flight.

I've been told (never been ramp-checked myself) that the FAA guy can
interpret this to mean that your chart must be current.

As of 1997, this is not the case, according to inspector Ryan of the Allentown FSDO.
The triggering incident was a case in which an inspector violated a pilot for having
an out-of-date database in his GPS. The inspector argued that this was exactly the
same as having an out-of-date chart. The FAA agreed with the logic and issued orders
to all the inspectors that out-of-date charts are ok.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
Only the W&B form signed by a mechanic counts as the legally required W&B --
a GPS database does not suffice.

Can you point me to an FAR that says this?

Thanks,
Bruce Bockius

"dave" wrote in message
...
What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

it is the exterior data plate normally near the tail required for DEA

gliders are exempt

BT

I haven't heard about this. How does a data plate help the DEA?


"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:BFIdc.478$Va4.278@fed1read01...
"dave" wrote in message
...
What is
"He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate." ?

it is the exterior data plate normally near the tail required for DEA

gliders are exempt

BT

Peter Gottlieb wrote:

I haven't heard about this. How does a data plate help the DEA?

The argument goes that it makes it easy for them to check the ID of the plane without
having to enter the plane and it's more difficult to falsify than the painted
N-numbers.

And I have some ocean-front property in Valdosta I'd like to show you, too.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".

What about this?

You hand an inspector your papers during a ramp check....

He stupidly takes or keeps something he has no legal right to....that you cant
replace on the spot...

You are stuck in Middle of Nowhere, Crappy State USA....you and the plane NEED
to get somewhere NOW....

You continue on your flight path to your destination....

Now youve shown up somewhere else WITHOUT a critical piece of paper....

WHO gets in trouble for not having the correct papers at the second ramp check?

I no nutin about piloting....and an inspector would have to be real jerk before
I'd be anything but polite, helpful, and respectable....

but I'm not sure I'd physically let go of any critical piece of paperwork I
needed either...

As they say...."possesion is 9/10ths of the law"

take care

Blll

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:Pvmdc.364$Va4.47@fed1read01...
He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.


The reason for the data plate is much the same as the VIN on your car, with
the additional purpose of ensuring that someone just doesn't go building a
Cessna 172 out of spare parts. Drugs has nothing to do with it.

A friend of mine just bought a Beaver in Canada. The plane had a long
history in both the US and Canada, having been owned at various times by
different owners on both sides of the border. Anyway, when he went to
register the plane he found that it was listed as destroyed. The data plate
was an illegal duplicate. There were actually two Beavers flying around with
the same data plate for awhile. My friend wanted to use the Beaver for
charter, but now the FAA says that because of the incomplete records and
questionable past the plane can never be certified as anything but
experimental. Apparently several former owners on both sides of the border
knew all this and just turned a blind eye toward it; now they are all
pointing fingers at each other. Dehavilland is threatening to get into the
act, tracking down and suing whoever built an illegal copy of its plane. It
is a huge mess and everyone is starting to file lawsuits against everybody
else. Nevertheless, there are apparently a lot of Beavers out there that
have the same problem.

Air America ran into some of the same problem. A lot of those Pilatus
Porters came back badly shot up and Air America started cobbling together
whole new planes out of salvaged parts. They eventually went to
manufacturing planes from spare parts, including special modifications that
little resembled the original Porters. They made up new data plates and even
had multiple airplanes flying around with the same tail numbers and
duplicate data plates. Pilatus eventually sued for infringement, and won.
The illegal aircraft were ordered destroyed. It was a factor in Congress'
decision to shut Air America down (one of many, including complaints from
other airlines that the government should not be competing directly with
them, the discovery that some pilots were conducting illegal activities, the
airline's cover had been completely blown, and -- most importantly -- the
CIA's determination that they no longer needed the airline).