Ramp checked at AVP today

Air America ran into some of the same problem. A lot of those Pilatus
Porters came back badly shot up and Air America started cobbling together
whole new planes out of salvaged parts. They eventually went to
manufacturing planes from spare parts, including special modifications that
little resembled the original Porters. They made up new data plates and even
had multiple airplanes flying around with the same tail numbers and
duplicate data plates. Pilatus eventually sued for infringement, and won.
The illegal aircraft were ordered destroyed. It was a factor in Congress'
decision to shut Air America down (one of many, including complaints from
other airlines that the government should not be competing directly with
them, the discovery that some pilots were conducting illegal activities, the
airline's cover had been completely blown, and -- most importantly -- the
CIA's determination that they no longer needed the airline).

The book I read told about a factory on a barge in Taiwan that was
manufacturing whole airplanes, not just spare parts.

BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.

That's assinine.


What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go to, can
we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft paperwork
reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are required. But
they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for charts, what ever. He
can look in the airplane by looking through the window. He can check the
aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.

Newps wrote in
news:TKzdc.105262$w54.746429@attbi_s01:



BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them. He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.

That's assinine.


What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your
medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go
to, can we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft
paperwork reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are
required. But they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for
charts, what ever. He can look in the airplane by looking through the
window. He can check the aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior
data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.



How could you refuse to show evidence of having a required document such
as W&B? Isn't that the purpose of a ramp check?

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

Newps wrote in
news:TKzdc.105262$w54.746429@attbi_s01:



BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them. He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.

That's assinine.



What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your
medical.

I'll get in my plane and fly away.



Any thing else he asks to see, "Sorry, I'm have an appointment to go
to, can we make an appointment at my local FSDO and have the aircraft
paperwork reviewed there?" That's it, done.

Most logs are not carried, but POH with weight and balance are
required. But they need not be shown during a ramp check. Same for
charts, what ever. He can look in the airplane by looking through the
window. He can check the aircraft for the required anti-drug exterior
data plate.

You lucked out.

No he didn't. That's how 99% of them go.




How could you refuse to show evidence of having a required document such
as W&B? Isn't that the purpose of a ramp check?



Didn't say you couldn't.

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:

He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

If the thought here is that you're surrendering your ticket by handing
them over, that's not how it's done. It's more complex than that and
requires a letter saying you're giving them up, they can't take it and say
so long sucker, and if they do, they're in hot water when you call the
FSDO immediately afterwards.

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Tell you what. Next time you see a FSDO inspector ask him what would
happen to a FSDO inspector who kept a medical or pilot certificate
during a ramp check against the pilots wishes. My local FSDO guys just
shudder at what would happen to that guy. They told me to just fly
anyways and to expect a FedEx'ed package with your stuff the next day as
well as a personal call of apology from the FSDO chief apologizing
profusely for his agents gross misconduct.

"Newps" wrote in message
news:FWIdc.2668$rg5.26879@attbi_s52...



On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:55:16 -0700, BTIZ wrote:


He can ask for anything he wants.. That does not mean he gets to see
them.
He can "see" not handle, the pilot certificate and a medical if
required.
What would you have done if he pocketed the certificate or your medical.

Tell you what. Next time you see a FSDO inspector ask him what would
happen to a FSDO inspector who kept a medical or pilot certificate
during a ramp check against the pilots wishes. My local FSDO guys just
shudder at what would happen to that guy. They told me to just fly
anyways and to expect a FedEx'ed package with your stuff the next day as
well as a personal call of apology from the FSDO chief apologizing
profusely for his agents gross misconduct.

Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane? It is well known that the FAA will
back its own no matter how wrong the action might have been i.e.. the
Bainbridge absurdity.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...
Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane?

No. His medical was revoked on an emergency basis, but that has nothing to
do with the question of whether handing your paperwork over to an inspector
will affect your certificate status one way or the other.

If the FAA wants to suspend or revoke your privileges, whether or not you
have your certificates in hand don't matter. Your privileges get suspended
or revoked, and you keeping your papers won't change that. Conversely, if
an inspector takes your certificates from you, and claims that you
voluntarily surrendered them, refusing to give them back, that does not mean
that you cannot fly. It just means that inspector will get into trouble
with his supervisors.

The rules regarding what constitutes voluntary surrender are very clear, and
nothing that happens during a ramp check could result in qualifying as
voluntary surrender (unless you somehow accidently write a letter to the FAA
during the ramp check...a bizarre situation to ponder, IMHO).

Pete

Dave Stadt wrote:



Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane?

No, not on the spot. That's not even possible to do.

Dave Stadt wrote:

Wasn't Bob Hoovers ticket pulled on the spot by a couple of FAA types that
had no idea how to fly an airplane?

Yes, and that's precisely why inspectors aren't allowed to do it anymore.

George Patterson
This marriage is off to a shaky start. The groom just asked the band to
play "Your cheatin' heart", and the bride just requested "Don't come home
a'drinkin' with lovin' on your mind".