ATC clears takeoff aircraft for midair

The tower at a class D airport does not provide much in the way of traffic
separation. They schedule takeoffs and landings and that is about it. They
don't have to tell you when to turn crosswind to downwind, or what heading a
departing aircraft is to take. If you want that kind of service you need to
fly out of class B airports. It is up to the pilots to look out for one
another.

The tower at a class D airport does not provide much in the way of traffic
separation. They schedule takeoffs and landings and that is about it.

Which is why, IMHO, Class D airspace is the single most dangerous airspace
around.

The designation of "Class D" provides the veneer of controlled airspace
without any real substance, and lulls the unwary into a false sense of
security.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than HPN--FRG
also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when I think about that
airport not having a control tower. It's far from perfect but the
controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of nearby aircraft even
though it's not their responsibility. What would your solution be? Make
Class C the first airspace designation with towers? Make all Class D's Class
C's? Give Class D ATC separation responsibilities? The last solution would
require prohibitively expensive radar upgrades.

Marco

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:734pc.91269$Ik.6994445@attbi_s53...
The tower at a class D airport does not provide much in the way of
traffic
separation. They schedule takeoffs and landings and that is about it.

Which is why, IMHO, Class D airspace is the single most dangerous airspace
around.

The designation of "Class D" provides the veneer of controlled airspace
without any real substance, and lulls the unwary into a false sense of
security.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"






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On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:59:38 -0400, "Marco Leon"
mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in Message-Id:
:

What would your solution be? Make
Class C the first airspace designation with towers? Make all Class D's Class
C's?

IIRC, VFR flights within Class C airspace are not separated from each
other either. Only IFR flights are provided separation from other
aircraft within Class C airspace.


--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
news

IIRC, VFR flights within Class C airspace are not separated from each
other either.

Technically no but practically yes. If you are approaching to land you have
to be sequenced to whoever you will be following.

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...

I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than
HPN--FRG also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when
I think about that airport not having a control tower. It's far from
perfect but the controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of
nearby aircraft even though it's not their responsibility. What
would your solution be? Make Class C the first airspace
designation with towers? Make all Class D's Class C's? Give
Class D ATC separation responsibilities? The last solution
would require prohibitively expensive radar upgrades.


ATC doesn't provide VFR/VFR separation in Class C airspace either.

Your're right. I should have said TRSA.
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...

I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than
HPN--FRG also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when
I think about that airport not having a control tower. It's far from
perfect but the controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of
nearby aircraft even though it's not their responsibility. What
would your solution be? Make Class C the first airspace
designation with towers? Make all Class D's Class C's? Give
Class D ATC separation responsibilities? The last solution
would require prohibitively expensive radar upgrades.


ATC doesn't provide VFR/VFR separation in Class C airspace either.






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I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than HPN--FRG
also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when I think about that
airport not having a control tower. It's far from perfect but the
controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of nearby aircraft even
though it's not their responsibility. What would your solution be?

I hear what you're saying, but to call non-radar airspace such as MOST Class
D "controlled" is (again, IMHO) wrong.

Call it "semi-controlled" or "ground separation only" or "we hope to see you
with our binoculars" -- do anything but call it "controlled"...cuz it ain't.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I see that as more of a problem with educating the pilots as opposed to a
problem with the airspace itself. But I see your point.

Marco

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:%Q5pc.241$gr.25776@attbi_s52...
I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than
HPN--FRG
also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when I think about that
airport not having a control tower. It's far from perfect but the
controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of nearby aircraft even
though it's not their responsibility. What would your solution be?

I hear what you're saying, but to call non-radar airspace such as MOST
Class
D "controlled" is (again, IMHO) wrong.

Call it "semi-controlled" or "ground separation only" or "we hope to see
you
with our binoculars" -- do anything but call it "controlled"...cuz it
ain't.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"






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In article %Q5pc.241$gr.25776@attbi_s52,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

I gotta disagree with you Jay. I fly out of a busier airport than HPN--FRG
also in NY. It's class D as well and I shudder when I think about that
airport not having a control tower. It's far from perfect but the
controllers do their best to try and warn pilots of nearby aircraft even
though it's not their responsibility. What would your solution be?

I hear what you're saying, but to call non-radar airspace such as MOST Class
D "controlled" is (again, IMHO) wrong.

Call it "semi-controlled" or "ground separation only" or "we hope to see you
with our binoculars" -- do anything but call it "controlled"...cuz it ain't.

Controlled has a very specific meaning -- it means ATC can provide
separation services to IFR aircraft. It includes classes A, B, C, D,
and E (at least in the US).