Bad news for our flying club

a Cherokee 6 is still a complex aircraft.. IIRC.. it only takes two of the
3.. controllable prop, flaps, gear

I'm wondering if the issue is more the 6 seats... and not the 300HP, retract
and flaps..

BT

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
The other flying club on our field has just been told by Avemco that they
won't insure Piper Lances and other large complex planes for flying clubs
any more. Since we've got a Lance as well, we're trying to get a
confirmation from Avemco. If true, this is a big blow.

I wonder if they'd insure a Cherokee 6?

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Hogshead now has a stated policy of Not Doing Business With ****wits,
which
has saved me enormous amounts of heartache over the last few months.
I recommend it. -- James Wallis, Hogshead Publishing

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:ljzrc.6841$7y5.5667@fed1read03...
a Cherokee 6 is still a complex aircraft.. IIRC.. it only takes two of the
3.. controllable prop, flaps, gear

No. Prop and flaps are sufficient for a seaplane. Otherwise, you need all
three.

A Cherokee 6 is NOT a complex airplane.

Pete

In article , Peter Duniho wrote:
No. Prop and flaps are sufficient for a seaplane. Otherwise, you need all
three.

A Cherokee 6 is NOT a complex airplane.

Nor is a jet aircraft. It doesn't have a controllable pitch propellor
g
--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
A Cherokee 6 is NOT a complex airplane.

Nor is a jet aircraft. It doesn't have a controllable pitch propellor
g

That's absolutely true as far as that specific definition in Part 61 goes.
However, it is a turbine-powered aircraft, which requires a type rating
instead.

Peter Duniho wrote:

That's absolutely true as far as that specific definition in Part 61 goes.
However, it is a turbine-powered aircraft, which requires a type rating
instead.

I was talking with a fellow today who told me about a 60hp turbine adapted from an
APU which is being used in a few homebuilt aircraft. I assume this one would require
a type rating?

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

In article , Paul Tomblin wrote:
The other flying club on our field has just been told by Avemco that they
won't insure Piper Lances and other large complex planes for flying clubs
any more. Since we've got a Lance as well, we're trying to get a
confirmation from Avemco. If true, this is a big blow.

It's almost certainly not blanket, and it's probably more to do with the
plane having 6 seats rather than being high performance/complex. We had
to insure a C210 as a 4-seat plane (removed the rear two seats) to get
it reasonable. (We could still get insurance with 6 seats but it was a
rip-off)

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

On Sat, 22 May 2004 02:44:35 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

The other flying club on our field has just been told by Avemco that they
won't insure Piper Lances and other large complex planes for flying clubs
any more. Since we've got a Lance as well, we're trying to get a
confirmation from Avemco. If true, this is a big blow.

I wonder if they'd insure a Cherokee 6?

Paul,

You should shop around insurance companies. You may want to use a
broker for this. I use Wenk Aviation Insurance 847-433-8370. Shannon
is my broker, and I have been very pleased with my rates for both a
Cherokee 180 and a Seneca II.

-Nathan

You should shop around insurance companies. You may want to use a
broker for this. I use Wenk Aviation Insurance 847-433-8370. Shannon
is my broker, and I have been very pleased with my rates for both a
Cherokee 180 and a Seneca II.

I'll second Nathan's recommendation. Shannon is the best!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Paul Tomblin wrote:
The other flying club on our field has just been told by Avemco that they
won't insure Piper Lances and other large complex planes for flying clubs
any more. Since we've got a Lance as well, we're trying to get a
confirmation from Avemco. If true, this is a big blow.

I wonder if they'd insure a Cherokee 6?

A true shame.

Avemco was once the most respected name in aviation insurance. I heard
wonderful stories about how claims were processed practically before
they were filed, and in "borderline" scenarios, they still took care of
their customers. They also insured higher risks at what I'll call a
"reasonable" rate. That kind of service was once worth the premimum
they charged.

However, I lost faith in Avemco when they dropped out of the
experimental market several years ago (and yes, this was WELL before
9/11 so don't believe the hype). Then I heard they started dropping
lots of safely operated light twins. And then most tailwheels. Now
it's Lance's or whatever else their actuaries feel will cost them a few
pennies more to insure. If this keeps up, they'll only be insuring
Cessna 150's with 5000 hour ATP-rated pilots.

While insurance companies make a business out of covering acceptable
risk, and spreading out the costs such that slightly higher risks get
affordable coverage, Avemco seems to be in the business of covering only
extremely low risk parties and charging double the market rate for that
coverage. That's opposed to the way I was told it's supposed to work
from an underwriting perspective. Lowest risk should (more or less)
equal lowest cost.

Do yourself and the industry a favor and tell Avemco to screw the pooch.
There are plenty of good insurance brokers and underwriters to deal
with. Our local broker just renewed us at about 7% lower than last year
with the same underwriter. We now pay $950 / yr for the 172 insured to
$60K hull (slightly below market value -- our choice, not theirs) and
$1M smooth. Of course, we SHOULD pay less, what with two 1000 hr+
commercial pilots and a CFI on the policy. When we left Avemco many
years ago, they were charging $1200/yr - same pilots, far less coverage.

I hope market forces teach Avemco a lesson and force them out of
business - assuming they don't decline to renew coverage on their
remaining customers and do it themselves.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

"Doug Vetter" wrote in message
et...
Paul Tomblin wrote:
The other flying club on our field has just been told by Avemco that
they
won't insure Piper Lances and other large complex planes for flying
clubs
any more. Since we've got a Lance as well, we're trying to get a
confirmation from Avemco. If true, this is a big blow.

I wonder if they'd insure a Cherokee 6?

A true shame.

Avemco was once the most respected name in aviation insurance. I heard
wonderful stories about how claims were processed practically before
they were filed, and in "borderline" scenarios, they still took care of
their customers. They also insured higher risks at what I'll call a
"reasonable" rate. That kind of service was once worth the premimum
they charged.

However, I lost faith in Avemco when they dropped out of the
experimental market several years ago (and yes, this was WELL before
9/11 so don't believe the hype). Then I heard they started dropping
lots of safely operated light twins. And then most tailwheels. Now
it's Lance's or whatever else their actuaries feel will cost them a few
pennies more to insure. If this keeps up, they'll only be insuring
Cessna 150's with 5000 hour ATP-rated pilots.

Not only that but their terms are not near what other companies offer. So
even if they do insure someone at higher than industry standard rates the
coverage sucks.