The price of gas

Perhaps your Libertarian party has some good ideas but at this time it is
not a serious contender and I don't see it as being one in the forseeable
future (there are many reasons for this and this isn't the appropriate place
to go into that discussion). The only thing you can hope for is that some
good ideas and concepts are adopted by one of the two big parties.


"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

WWW.lp.org

Are you ready yet? Or do you have to be punished some more?

I will be in Atlanta Memorial Day weekend for the Libertarian Party
convention.
Those who can attend, should and those who cannot, it will be on C-Span.


--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
I agree that refining capacity has been impacted by various enviornmental
regs. These haven't affected drilling (and hence production) much
though.


Environmental regs haven't affected drilling? Are you kidding?

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with the
regs were amortized.

On
the production side, the market is telling you that it is not very
attractive to drill at recent prices.

As one person pointed out to me: the oil companies that took a beating the
past ten years or so were the ones that merely did refining, not drilling.
(He mentioned Texaco and a few others I don't recall / recognize).

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Ra1sc.10707$af3.571010@attbi_s51...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be built.
On
the production side, the market is telling you that it is not very
attractive to drill at recent prices.

I was under the impression that restrictive EPA regulations had
essentially
halted new refinery construction?

And any NEW drilling.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" writes:

When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be
built.
On
the production side, the market is telling you that it is not very
attractive to drill at recent prices.

I was under the impression that restrictive EPA regulations had
essentially
halted new refinery construction?

Caveat: I know as much about the refinery business as Jay ;-)

EPA regulations don't "halt new refinery construction." Their
safeguards no doubt make it more expensive.

The cost of the initial PAPERWORK runs into $$$BBBBILLIONS, much less the
actual construction.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Z91sc.99636$xw3.5914852@attbi_s04...
Check out how much it costs to get past the EPA and the rest fo the
government alphabet soup to build refining capacity, to drill, or other
facilities.

You can extend that statement to EVERYTHING nowadays.

You should see the cost of all the various EPA reports just for our
airport
to extend a friggin' runway by a 1000 feet. It's incredible.

You should see the OSHA crap we run through. Our friggin' insurance company
got our accident rate down to a fourth what it was when OSHA was running it
all (and it was still rising).


Best of all, we have paid this fee (really a "hidden" tax) over and over,
because OTHER government agencies have conspired to delay or change the
design of this runway a dozen times, over the last 10 of 15 years.

Don't get me started! :~)

Sometime I'll fly out there and let my boss tell you about the 14.5 acre
mini-mall he was trying to build that cost over $2MILLION just to get past
the EPA crap, and bribes...ahemmm, campaign contributions, before the first
shovel full of dirt was turned. That was in friggin' South Dakota.


And each time the plan is changed, guess what? You need ANOTHER
"environmental impact statement"...

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!


The company that contracts this service simply massages the old data,
reissues it in new book form, and cashes yet another check.

What a scam.

Bet they got some nice retired gub'mint types working for them.

"Bob Fry" wrote in message
...
"Jay Honeck" writes:

Check out how much it costs to get past the EPA and the rest fo the
government alphabet soup to build refining capacity, to drill, or
other
facilities.

You can extend that statement to EVERYTHING nowadays.

You should see the cost of all the various EPA reports just for our
airport
to extend a friggin' runway by a 1000 feet. It's incredible.

Jay, as I recall, you haven't traveled outside of the country. Too
bad, 'cause then you could see the cost of living without something
like the EPA or other agencies.

False alternative.


With all their problems, the government alphabet agencies have made
this a better place to live. Have they done so in a perfectly
efficient manner? No.

And the Holocaust and the Stalin Purges were just frat pranks that got out
of hand.

But I sure don't see a mass exodus from the
USA to Mexico, other 3rd world countries, or even to Europe.

You should read more.

Maybe
we've got a somewhat balanced approach here.

It's not balanced at all. What's more, total stupidity in other countries
doesn't excuse blatant stupidity (or corruption) here.

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with
the
regs were amortized.


If refining is so incredibly expensive here then why isn't the refining
being done where it is cheaper and the final product shipped here for
consumption?

The logical conclusion is that refining here, with all the regulations, is
still economically favorable as compared to refining elsewhere.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
news

"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
When it is profitable enough then more refining capacity will be
built.

Don't think so. Couldn't do it if they if they wanted to. If the regs
were
"relaxed", it would still be prohibitive after the cost of dealing with
the
regs were amortized.


If refining is so incredibly expensive here then why isn't the refining
being done where it is cheaper and the final product shipped here for
consumption?

Probably because it's easdier/safer to transport crude than gasoline.


The logical conclusion is that refining here, with all the regulations, is
still economically favorable as compared to refining elsewhere.

And that's not even the point. (Try staying on the topic...or understanding
it to begin with).

Perhaps your Libertarian party has some good ideas but at this time it is
not a serious contender and I don't see it as being one in the forseeable
future (there are many reasons for this and this isn't the appropriate place
to go into that discussion). The only thing you can hope for is that some
good ideas and concepts are adopted by one of the two big parties.

I agree that we are not serious contenders for the forseeable future in terms
of winning national elections. (However our local Libertarian candidate for
mayor of VA Beach came within 4 percent of unseating an 18 year incumbent
Democrat) and I look at the LP as more of a vehicle for introducing the
American ublic to some quaint ideas like freedom, self governance and personal
responsibility.

But if we get the FairTax through Congress, working with the GOP and a handful
of Democrats, we will be serious contenders from that time on.

Still, though I have to work with the GOP to get things done, I feel a lot
'cleaner' for being a Libertarian.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG