what would you do?

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:cwGBc.70661$Hg2.7085@attbi_s04...
What does "report her" mean? Why should the FSDO care what I say when I
"report" a fellow pilot?

They are the ones in charge of enforcing the FARs.

Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?


Is there a procedure for this?

Pick up the phone, dial the number, tell them what you saw and heard.

I don't know - I
just don't like the idea that an overly officious fellow pilot would
decide
to "report me" if they were unhappy with my piloting.

Me either. But still, what else are you going to do?

How do you feel about calling the police if someone breaks into your
house?
I mean, you wouldn't want YOUR neighbor calling the police tell them YOU
broke into THEIR house, would you? By your logic, you ought to just
ignore
the guy breaking into your own house.

No, that doesn't follow, Peter. I have no problem reporting (some) crimes to
the police. Her piloting may have been unsafe, but it was not a crime.


[...] I can just picture him "reporting" me, and having
to deal with a FSDO investigation or some such thing.

Had he reported you, I doubt anything of substance would have happened.
In
any case, you can always sue him for slander.

Ugh, litigation - the worst possible result.


Pete

Michael 182 wrote:

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

They are the ones in charge of enforcing the FARs.

Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?

You forget. This is the FAA. Believing you gives them an opportunity to investigate a
pilot. She is guilty until proven innocent.

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:KjLBc.69040$2i5.6820@attbi_s52...
Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?

It's highly unlikely that a single report would cause anything to happen.
But if the FSDO hears from several people about the same person, there's
probably something to that. You can be assured that the FSDO isn't going to
base their entire case on your word. However, your word may be just what
they need to take a closer look at a pilot who needs a closer look.

How do you feel about calling the police if someone breaks into your
house?
I mean, you wouldn't want YOUR neighbor calling the police tell them YOU
broke into THEIR house, would you? By your logic, you ought to just
ignore
the guy breaking into your own house.

No, that doesn't follow, Peter. I have no problem reporting (some) crimes
to
the police. Her piloting may have been unsafe, but it was not a crime.

Of course it follows. The behavior not being a crime is irrelevant, and in
any case it may well be a crime (ever heard of "reckless endangerment"?).

The point is that you are saying that because you wouldn't want someone to
falsely report you of doing something, that you wouldn't want to truthfully
report someone else of doing the same thing. That attitude makes no sense,
and it really doesn't matter whether the "thing" being done has been
labelled as "illegal" or simply "against the regulations".

Had he reported you, I doubt anything of substance would have happened.
In
any case, you can always sue him for slander.

Ugh, litigation - the worst possible result.

So don't sue. I was just pointing out that it's not like a falsely accused
person doesn't have recourse. We're not really talking about you being
reported. We're talking about someone else being reported, and a person who
has actually done something worth reporting at that.

Pete

"Michael 182" wrote in message

What does "report her" mean? Why should the FSDO care what I say when
I
"report" a fellow pilot?

They are the ones in charge of enforcing the FARs.

Right, but it is my word against hers. Why should they believe me?

Because other people might have reported her too. If not, at least you made
a best effort instead of shrugging the whole thing off and hoping somebody
doesn't get killed by her irresponsibility next time.

Here's an anecdote. In 1990 or so, a Lake flew under the bridges in
downtown Portland, Oregon in the middle of the day, and the FAA and police
were looking all over for the guy. I saw a Lake that fit the exact
description sitting outside a hangar at TTD, having just landed, that very
day. Didn't report it, although Lake amphibs are pretty rare out here.
Should I have reported it?

-c

"Michael 182" wrote in message

The jerk
was yelling at me that if I couldn't land shorter than that I shouldn't be
landing at "his" airport. I can just picture him "reporting" me, and
having
to deal with a FSDO investigation or some such thing.

Those are good points, Micheal. If I reported her to the FSDO, I'd have the
guts to give my name and number so that I could contribute what I saw if
necessary.

But if I saw a pilot knowingly putting other pilots and aircraft in danger,
I'd definately want to do something to prevent him/her from doing it again,
and cussing her out isn't an option.
-c

perhaps that CFI should not sign off her next BFR... if she flies like this
and does not listen and learn... then I would not want my name to be the
last endorsement in her logbook.. maybe he should warn his friends also..

BT

"gatt" wrote in message
...

Report her. She might not deserve the favor, and she might not appreciate
it, but it might be the best thing you could do for her, any passengers
she
might carry, and the safety of GA as a whole.

-c

"tony roberts" wrote in message
news:nospam-7E8DDE.22231620062004@shawnews...
I have to make a decision that could have a big impact on a fellow pilot
and I would appreciate knowing what you would do in my situation - Here
are the basic facts:
Today I, along with a pilot passenger (witness) went to a fly-in - lots
of planes arriving in short time frame.
Active runway was 14, lh downwind, circuit height 3000 ft.
We called 5 miles out (procedure) and received a response from another
pilot "Joining 17 in 2 minutes".
I responded, "are you arriving xxx airport - there is no 17"
Response - "sorry I meant 35".
I reply, there is no 35 - the runways are 14 and 32. 14 is active,
downwind is lh, circuit is 3000 ft.
Response - circling over 35 losing altitude.
Me - I am approaching threshold of 32 at 3000ft to join downwind left
14. There is no 35 and you should not be descending over the runway.
Response - I am at 5500 descending for 35.
Me - I repeat this airport is 14 and 32 - circuit height is 3000 ft. We
are about to cross midfield to join downwind left 14.
Response - Sorry I meant 32 - I am on downwind left 32.
(32 if it was active - is downwind right)
Me - You are on head on collision course with me- I am in immediate
emergency descent and crossing to midfield (no choice - mountains in
other direction)
Response - Well - I'm trying to land here! Huh?
Me - XXX Radio - are you guys listening to this? I could really use your
help here right now (I admit - I got VERY rattled)
XXX Radio - Errr aircraft xxx active is downwind left 14.
So I land.
And then this plane comes in and bounces nose wheel to mains - 4 or 5
times.
So I'm out of the plane and I meet a friend who arrived before me. And
that was when I found out that our radio calls had been broadcast via
loudspeakers to over 1000 spectators.
And my friend said, "I am really embarrassed about this, because I have
been trying to help this pilot (who has a PPL and over 100 hours) but
she is totally clueless.
So the pilot now taxis next to my friends aircraft , taxis into the
grass/soft dirt - gets stuck trying to turn, applys FULL power and
sprays the side of my friends aircraft with dirt & stones - and keeps
doing it - because she is so clueless she doesn't know what she is
doing.
Moving forward - I watched her depart.
Radio at taxiway - Aircraft calling on final - which airport are you
landing at - I kid you not.
Aircraft on final - 14 XXX
He lands.
Another aircraft calls final 14 xxx
Response - Aircraft on final - which airport are you landing at?
Aircraft on final - 14 XXX
And yet another aircraft calls final.
"Listen - I'm waiting to take off here"
He lands.
She has about 8 aircraft behind her.
Now she does her runup.
Her call - XXX taking off. (No runway - just taking off).
Of the approx 500 aircraft that took off here today, this was the ONLY
one that didn't backtrack.
With nosewheel up way to soon for density altitude she took off, stall
horn wailing as she skimmed the trees and departed for home.
Would you report her - or would you forget it?
I'm having a hard time thinking of reporting her,
I'll have a harder time if I do nothing and she crashes next week.
What would you do?
Thanks
Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

tony roberts wrote:

Me - You are on head on collision course with me-

If you're both in LH downwinds for opposing runways, then - at least during
the downwind - you're well clear of one another. Crossing midfield for the
RH pattern while the other pilot is in LH for opposing runway is exactly
the wrong thing to do.

- Andrew

First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern. Being rude is not a
crime (otherwise most of us here would have been locked up long ago).

Secondly, if your radio conversation was broadcast over the loudspeakers for
1000 people to hear, the FAA already heard it.

Third, if your friend is a CFI who has been working with this pilot, then
your friend is probably in the best position to recommend that this pilot
take a competency check.

Last of all, I have heard this kind of stuff at every fly-in I have gone to.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty
finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern.

Flying a left pattern for a runway designated as right-traffic violates
91.126b or 91.127a.

--Gary

So long as she landed on 14 she flew a left upwind to 14. Doesn't matter
what radio call she used. If she called a left downwind for 32 we all
should know where she is. The original poster was flying the wrong pattern
if he was right upwind for 14 when 14 is a left pattern.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:sXUBc.92880$Sw.18279@attbi_s51...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
First of all, what would you report her for? I am having difficulty
finding
an actual FAR violation here, though it appears that everyone, including
yourself, was flying some sort of non-standard pattern.

Flying a left pattern for a runway designated as right-traffic violates
91.126b or 91.127a.

--Gary