Constant speed props

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I caught that right after I posted it :-) I had cleaned out OE last
night back to four days old and missed the pickup. Thought I had
deleted this but obviously it didn't work!
Anyway.....it looks to me like the IP needs a complete checkout in this
airplane before flying it. His questions just seem way out of line for
someone taking delivery of an airplane they are rated and competent to
fly!
Sorry about the mispost :-)


FWIW, I just (today!) completed complex and high performance checkouts.
Before I started the actual work, though, I read a fair bit on both the
specific aircraft and constant-speed prop use in general.

[I even posted some questions here, I believe.]

Reading ahead is never a bad idea, in my experience (granted: I don't read
many mysteries {8^).

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I caught that right after I posted it :-) I had cleaned out OE last
night back to four days old and missed the pickup. Thought I had
deleted this but obviously it didn't work!
Anyway.....it looks to me like the IP needs a complete checkout in
this
airplane before flying it. His questions just seem way out of line
for
someone taking delivery of an airplane they are rated and competent
to
fly!
Sorry about the mispost :-)


FWIW, I just (today!) completed complex and high performance
checkouts.
Before I started the actual work, though, I read a fair bit on both
the
specific aircraft and constant-speed prop use in general.

[I even posted some questions here, I believe.]

Reading ahead is never a bad idea, in my experience (granted: I don't
read
many mysteries {8^).

- Andrew

Nobody doubts that reading and studying ahead is the right way to go,
and I for one would of course encourage that. I also would encourage
pilots answering requests for this type of information to include as an
integral part of their answering post, the importance of getting this
checkout. I assume that since the poster specified he was preparing for
a proper checkout, this was why pilots answering didn't elaborate on it.
Dealing in flight safety and instruction all my life points any answer I
might give to this type of post toward reminding someone that the REAL
answers being sought will be found there, and not necessarily in the
prep work, which as we both agree, is fine and to be encouraged.
It's a matter of personal emphasis. Mine is ALWAYS on the proper
checkout as supplying the answers needed and NOT the prep work!
Just my style I guess :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Thanks for your reply, as well as the debate on my actual intentions. "Get
with my instructor" was implying that I will be getting the proper training
in this aircraft from a qualified CFI. I simply wanted to increase my
knowledge prior to that instruction.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
ink.net...
I don't wish to sound like a smartass here, but what's your problem with
getting a full checkout in this airplane from a competent pilot current
in the aircraft?
It sounds like you might benefit from a bit of complex training here!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt
"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:30:03 +0000, EDR wrote:

In article , GE
wrote:

I'm taking delivery today of my first aircraft and it had a
constant speed
prop. I have only flown fixed props thus far. I want to have as
much
understanding of the c-s prop as possible before I get with my
instructor. I
understand the basic difference in what the controls do, but I
don't really
have a good understanding of the hows and whys of flying with them.
Any
general information, explanations, and tips would be greatly
appreciated.

Go to www.avweb.com
on the left side of the screen, select COLUMNS
scroll down to find THE PELICAN"S PERCH
there are articles on fuel injection, manifold pressure, constant
speed
props, leaning, etc
Everything you ever want to know about operating a high performance
aircraft engine is in those articles.


Great link!

I started reading this
article, http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/186619-1.html, and have a
question. In the Runup section, when he starts to test for proper mag
operation, somethings seems odd there. Can someone help explain that?
He
says, "Are the mags working? The leaner the mixture, the more mag drop
you'll see on one mag, and that's normal." He then goes on to say,
"The
EGTs should rise on the first single-mag operation, stay there for the
second, then drop again on the return to BOTH. That rise is
proof-positive
the entire ignition system is working, and working well, and the
leaner
the mixture, the more diagnostic it is."

Can someone help explain the supporting logic there? If both mags are
working properly and you switch to a single mag, why would the EGT go
up?
After all, in theory, you're producing less spark and thusly, a
slightly
less effecient ignition of the fuel/air. I would of thought that EGT
would stay the same or go down *just slightly* when running off of one
mag. Likewise, if one mag is not working, I would fully expect to see
a
big EGT drop for the given problematic mag, which he does agree with.
But, he further asserts that, "If any of them fail to rise or even
drop
during single-mag operation, there is a problem with that plug, the
wire,
or the mag."

So, why would running on one mag, versus two, always cause higher
EGTs?
And why would no rise in EGT indicate a bad mag, wire or plug?

Anyone?


P.S. I cross posted because this seems like good student pilot
material
too.

"GE" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your reply, as well as the debate on my actual intentions.
"Get
with my instructor" was implying that I will be getting the proper
training
in this aircraft from a qualified CFI. I simply wanted to increase my
knowledge prior to that instruction.

No problem, and I assumed you would be doing that. The reason I didn't
handle your post with the information you asked for is because there is
a difference between generics and specifics; and for what you will be
doing, specifics are called for. The checkout in a new complex is
aircraft specific and should be treated as such. Since you didn't state
what specific aircraft you were dealing with, I would refrain from
offering advice other than pointing you to the checkout procedure.
It's my practice that whenever a question like yours comes up without
stating what airplane the question is dealing with, I opt to steer the
poster to the checkout procedure rather than get into the specifics
requested. It's a safety issue with me......a personal preference so to
speak.
Best of luck with your checkout. I'm sure you'll do fine.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

The initial poster asking these questions sounds like he might benefit
from a complex checkout, or at least a thorough checkout in this
airplane given by a competent pilot current in the aircraft!
:-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt
"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:30:03 +0000, EDR wrote:

In article , GE
wrote:

I'm taking delivery today of my first aircraft and it had a
constant speed
prop. I have only flown fixed props thus far. I want to have as
much
understanding of the c-s prop as possible before I get with my
instructor. I
understand the basic difference in what the controls do, but I
don't really
have a good understanding of the hows and whys of flying with them.
Any
general information, explanations, and tips would be greatly
appreciated.

Go to www.avweb.com
on the left side of the screen, select COLUMNS
scroll down to find THE PELICAN"S PERCH
there are articles on fuel injection, manifold pressure, constant
speed
props, leaning, etc
Everything you ever want to know about operating a high performance
aircraft engine is in those articles.


Great link!

I started reading this
article, http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/186619-1.html, and have a
question. In the Runup section, when he starts to test for proper mag
operation, somethings seems odd there. Can someone help explain that?
He
says, "Are the mags working? The leaner the mixture, the more mag drop
you'll see on one mag, and that's normal." He then goes on to say,
"The
EGTs should rise on the first single-mag operation, stay there for the
second, then drop again on the return to BOTH. That rise is
proof-positive
the entire ignition system is working, and working well, and the
leaner
the mixture, the more diagnostic it is."

Can someone help explain the supporting logic there? If both mags are
working properly and you switch to a single mag, why would the EGT go
up?
After all, in theory, you're producing less spark and thusly, a
slightly
less effecient ignition of the fuel/air. I would of thought that EGT
would stay the same or go down *just slightly* when running off of one
mag. Likewise, if one mag is not working, I would fully expect to see
a
big EGT drop for the given problematic mag, which he does agree with.
But, he further asserts that, "If any of them fail to rise or even
drop
during single-mag operation, there is a problem with that plug, the
wire,
or the mag."

So, why would running on one mag, versus two, always cause higher
EGTs?
And why would no rise in EGT indicate a bad mag, wire or plug?

Anyone?


P.S. I cross posted because this seems like good student pilot
material
too.

Greg Copeland wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:30:03 +0000, EDR wrote:


In article , GE
wrote:


I'm taking delivery today of my first aircraft and it had a constant speed
prop. I have only flown fixed props thus far. I want to have as much
understanding of the c-s prop as possible before I get with my instructor. I
understand the basic difference in what the controls do, but I don't really
have a good understanding of the hows and whys of flying with them. Any
general information, explanations, and tips would be greatly appreciated.

Go to www.avweb.com
on the left side of the screen, select COLUMNS
scroll down to find THE PELICAN"S PERCH
there are articles on fuel injection, manifold pressure, constant speed
props, leaning, etc
Everything you ever want to know about operating a high performance
aircraft engine is in those articles.



Great link!

I started reading this
article, http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/186619-1.html, and have a
question. In the Runup section, when he starts to test for proper mag
operation, somethings seems odd there. Can someone help explain that? He
says, "Are the mags working? The leaner the mixture, the more mag drop
you'll see on one mag, and that's normal." He then goes on to say, "The
EGTs should rise on the first single-mag operation, stay there for the
second, then drop again on the return to BOTH. That rise is proof-positive
the entire ignition system is working, and working well, and the leaner
the mixture, the more diagnostic it is."

Can someone help explain the supporting logic there? If both mags are
working properly and you switch to a single mag, why would the EGT go up?
After all, in theory, you're producing less spark and thusly, a slightly
less effecient ignition of the fuel/air. I would of thought that EGT
would stay the same or go down *just slightly* when running off of one
mag. Likewise, if one mag is not working, I would fully expect to see a
big EGT drop for the given problematic mag, which he does agree with.
But, he further asserts that, "If any of them fail to rise or even drop
during single-mag operation, there is a problem with that plug, the wire,
or the mag."

So, why would running on one mag, versus two, always cause higher EGTs?
And why would no rise in EGT indicate a bad mag, wire or plug?

Running on one mag means the fuel air mixture burns slower... so when
the exhaust valve opens, its still burning and the flame front travels
out the valve (or so ive been told).

If you get NO change with a mag check, then the burning characteristics
arent changing, that means the mag is not dropping offline.. which means
its not groundiing out.

I seem to remember this being explained in Deakin's articles but its
been a while since I've read them.

Dave

Greg,

All the explanations you got are good. Now for the carb heat check.
What happens to the EGTs?

FWIW, a while ago I had a too high RPM drop on the mag check with our
Lyc O-360. A look at the engine monitor showed one cylinder's EGT going
very high. This points strongly to one plug being fouled. A little time
of running the engine at high rpm and very lean on the ground cleared
the problem, which could also clearly be seen on the engine monitor.
These things are worth their weight in gold, even on the simpler
engines.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)