"Proceed on Course" = "Right turn approved"?

Bob Chilcoat wrote:
I took of from Reading, PA this morning from RW 31 with an on-course heading
of 105. As I was cleared for takeoff, I was told "Cleared for takeoff,
proceed on course". In the past, they've also added "Right turn approved".
This time they didn't. I was concerned that I hadn't been cleared for a
right turn, and a right turn would have gotten me on course sooner. I then
said "Request right turn to on course" but the controller seemed a bit
irritated and just added "On course approved". Did I have permission for a
right turn in the pattern or not?


At a towered airport you turn whatever direction you want, unless
otherwise instructed.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:21:17 -0600, Newps wrote:



Bob Chilcoat wrote:
I took of from Reading, PA this morning from RW 31 with an on-course heading
of 105. As I was cleared for takeoff, I was told "Cleared for takeoff,
proceed on course". In the past, they've also added "Right turn approved".
This time they didn't. I was concerned that I hadn't been cleared for a
right turn, and a right turn would have gotten me on course sooner. I then
said "Request right turn to on course" but the controller seemed a bit
irritated and just added "On course approved". Did I have permission for a
right turn in the pattern or not?


At a towered airport you turn whatever direction you want, unless
otherwise instructed.


Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance. This happens a lot
here, for some reason. The tower has a fit, and rightfully so.

Bill Zaleski wrote:



At a towered airport you turn whatever direction you want, unless
otherwise instructed.



Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance.

That's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I'm supposed to fly
4 or 5 miles until I leave the class D before I can cross an extended
centerline of the departure rwy? Bull****. If the tower controller
doesn't give me a damn good reason not to turn then I'll turn to
whatever is convenient for me.


This happens a lot
here, for some reason.

It happens alot becaue it's ridiculous to assume it wouldn't.



The tower has a fit,

Where is here, I'd like to come thru there one day.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 20:36:09 -0600, Newps wrote:


Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance.

That's one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I'm supposed to fly
4 or 5 miles until I leave the class D before I can cross an extended
centerline of the departure rwy? Bull****. If the tower controller
doesn't give me a damn good reason not to turn then I'll turn to
whatever is convenient for me.

Just to play devil's advocate, why would you need to cross the
extended centerline? You took off, you turned in the direction that
you intended to go which would either be right or left of the
centerline. Unless you were completely screwed up (or were declaring
an emergency and it wouldn't matter) you wouldn't need to reverse the
turn and cross the centerline again. Doing so would confuse the
controller, and any traffic taking off behind you which was expecting
you to keep going in generally the direction you were going, right?

Wouldn't anything else be a transit of the Class D which would need
approval anyway?

Peter Clark wrote:

Just to play devil's advocate, why would you need to cross the
extended centerline?

Unless the pilot is paying a lot of attention to the ground track, a crosswind is
likely to cause the aircraft to drift downwind a bit while climbing out. If you've
drifted to the right, a left turn will then take you across the extended centerline.
Since my aircraft has no rear view mirror, I can't be absolutely sure, but I'd bet
that I rarely track the extended centerline when the wind is up, especially at
unfamiliar fields.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
news
Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance.
[...]

Just to play devil's advocate, why would you need to cross the
extended centerline?

I've never heard that rule, but assuming it exists, I think the situation
where it would be more relevant would be an airport with parallel runways.

Sure would be nice if someone who thinks the rule exists would cite the
regulation where it appears.

Pete

"Bill Zaleski" wrote in message
...
Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance. This happens a lot
here, for some reason. The tower has a fit, and rightfully so.

Hmm, don't remember reading that in the AIM.

Seems to me that "Maintain runway heading until advised" would fit the bill
in this situation.


"Bill Zaleski" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 19:21:17 -0600, Newps wrote:



Bob Chilcoat wrote:
I took of from Reading, PA this morning from RW 31 with an on-course
heading
of 105. As I was cleared for takeoff, I was told "Cleared for takeoff,
proceed on course". In the past, they've also added "Right turn
approved".
This time they didn't. I was concerned that I hadn't been cleared for
a
right turn, and a right turn would have gotten me on course sooner. I
then
said "Request right turn to on course" but the controller seemed a bit
irritated and just added "On course approved". Did I have permission
for a
right turn in the pattern or not?


At a towered airport you turn whatever direction you want, unless
otherwise instructed.


Agreed, but you may not cross an extension of the departure runway
centerline till outside the "D" or with clearance. This happens a lot
here, for some reason. The tower has a fit, and rightfully so.

Bob Gardner wrote:

Seems to me that "Maintain runway heading until advised" would fit the bill
in this situation.

If you maintain that heading and there's any crosswind, you will not track the
extended centerline. When we brought my Maule back from the factory, we departed from
a nearby controlled field. We were told to maintain runway heading. The controller
explained to us that he had a corporate jet leaving right after us, and maintaining
this heading would cause us to drift to the right and get out of the way of the jet.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...

If you maintain that heading and there's any crosswind, you will not track
the
extended centerline.


You're not expected to track the runway centerline when instructed to fly
runway heading.