Aviation crash videos on-line

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1gv%c.112$LT5.78@attbi_s52...
God, what a ****ing moron you are. Threatening my ass! The only
threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use
of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them;

Dudley -- if this really IS you -- this is just another display of
irrationality. For example, you might stop to consider that your
participation in the re-design of the website would have meant the
elimination of any potentially offensive words, like "cool" and
"enjoy."

After all, YOU would have been writing the captions.

To any internet experts who might be reading this: Is it possible
that
someone has hijacked Dudley's email address and Usenet signature? I
find
it absolutely impossible to believe that the bizarre posts I'm reading
here
under his name are from the same guy who has been posting here for all
these
years.

Between the profanity and bizarre leaps of illogic, they don't appear
to be
written in Dudley's same style and manner.

It's either criminal, or sad -- I don't know which.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Sorry, no sale! You made no mention to me about any ability to change
your wording on your site until this moment, and it was by sheer
accident I discovered those two words before joining you, which would
have been a HUGE mistake for me.
I've cooled off enough now to clean up my language with you, but I
haven't changed my mind one iota about either you or the site.
You have yet to explain, not necessarily to me, but to everyone here,
how you allowed the words COOL and ENJOY to CONTINUE UNCHANGED as you
were putting crash video with people dying, on your site. You have the
option to do that now if you wish. If not, I'll let it be!
Just be advised that you and I are not on friendly terms any longer. I
will not post to you unless posted to by you. If you can abide by that,
you will hear no more from me on this issue.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Sorry, no sale! You made no mention to me about any ability to change
your wording on your site until this moment, and it was by sheer
accident I discovered those two words before joining you, which would
have been a HUGE mistake for me.

The only mistake you have made was not thinking before typing.

I invited you to write an "expert" safety commentary on each video. This
would have included pretty much anything you wanted to write.

Just be advised that you and I are not on friendly terms any longer.

I'll still be here, and there will still be a cold one waiting for you
whenever you come to Oshkosh or Iowa City -- but not till after they've
adjusted your meds.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:%wC%c.132129$9d6.177@attbi_s54...
Sorry, no sale! You made no mention to me about any ability to change
your wording on your site until this moment, and it was by sheer
accident I discovered those two words before joining you, which would
have been a HUGE mistake for me.

The only mistake you have made was not thinking before typing.

I invited you to write an "expert" safety commentary on each video.
This
would have included pretty much anything you wanted to write.

Listen up Jay, and see if you can get once and for all what I'm telling
you about you, your site, and how that relates to all this crap you're
trying to soft sell around here about flight safety being a "concern" of
yours and how I could have "contributed" to your site simply by
accepting your idiotic offer to me. I made it quite plain in my initial
answer to you but since flight safety was never really your reason for
making your "offer" in the first place, it must have gone right over
your head.
In viewing crash video in a flight safety context, to even begin to get
useful data from that video, it takes weeks of intensive work by a team
of experts using eye witness accounts coupled with more expert technical
opinion from factory reps and technicicans before even a glimmer of
factual information begins to emerge. There are literally hundreds of
factors to be considered before one...yes, I said ONE single useful
detail emerges that can be truthfully considered as a probable cause.
After THAT has taken place, the same experts have to gather again and
prepare a report that suggests the changes necessary to help prevent
that SPECIFIC accident from happening again.
Now, perhaps you can see why people in the flight safety business frown
on people like you pushing the flight safety issue as the excuse for
showing crash video on a public web site. The plain simple truth is that
there is no flight safety benefit derived from viewing these videos
simply from the video itself.
Sure, any moron can comment on the video. That doesn't take any brains
at all; but it's just conjecture, even if it's from an "expert" like me!
So don't try and push this "all you had to do was comment" thing at me
pal, I know better, and I hope some of the rest of the pilots around
here know better as well.
Crash video put up on a public web site is simply crash video. You can
spout off all day long about getting "experts" to comment for safety
reasons, but all that is from a professional viewpoint is an excuse for
showing the videos.
You "invited" me to join you on your web site and I declined for several
reasons. The above are the professional reasons. The personal reason was
because I realized your "invitation" to me was simply a "put up or shut
up" scenario, and I don't respond to that to begin with. Then, when I
discovered you had the words COOL and ENJOY on the site, your
"invitation" became the ultimate insult! No ligitimate person even
remotely involved in flight safety issues would even consider being
involved on a site like yours. If you doubt this, go find another
ligitimate safety expert who will accept your "offer" to comment on
crash video showing people dying on the same page as the words COOL and
ENJOY; then come back and let us now who he or she is. I'd like to meet
that person, and I'm betting there are others on this group who would
like to meet them too.


Just be advised that you and I are not on friendly terms any longer.

I'll still be here, and there will still be a cold one waiting for you
whenever you come to Oshkosh or Iowa City -- but not till after
they've
adjusted your meds.

No thank you. I have no control over who I have to deal with on Usenet,
but I can still pick with whom I want to share a drink. People who show
crash video on commercial hotel websites under the heading COOL and
ENJOY trying to involve my expertise to help sell hotel rooms I don't
drink with.
In closing, I have an invitation for you in front of this entire group.
If you're all that enamoured with my expertise as a flight safety
expert, and you have all this unbounded respect for my opinion on the
issue that caused you to invite me on your crash page with you; and have
so stated this high regard for my opinion on this newsgroup ; then after
what I've told you in this post about the uselessness of viewing crash
video on a public web page for safety reasons, let me now suggest that
you remove all crash video from your web site nor that you know it has
so little value in the flight safety context.
As they say in chess......CHECK!!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

First "Dudley Henriques" writes:
Right! I'll inform the rest of the world immediately! They'll want to
retract fifty years of sought after professional advice.

Then he professionally advises:
Oh give me a ****ing break!
....and...
Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

He attempts to threaten:
and oh yes, you have ****ed off the worst person you could have
possibly picked to confront on this issue...trust me!!!

Continues professionally:
God, what a ****ing moron you are.

....and then retracts the threat:
Threatening my ass! The only threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them; I would have
marched into your GD lobby with several dozen other "interested"
parties from the aviation community and demanded that you remove my name
and any reference of me from your website!
Go on moron, show us some more threats other than that!

Some unsolicited advice: think, _then_ post. You will come off
sounding much more reasoned and professional if you do.

Chris

(I happen to believe that Jay actually meant it when he said 'The
"Cool Videos" title pre-dates many of the tragic videos that are now
on that page. I shall change it to something more appropriate when I
get a minute.')
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
First "Dudley Henriques" writes:
Right! I'll inform the rest of the world immediately! They'll want to
retract fifty years of sought after professional advice.

Then he professionally advises:
Oh give me a ****ing break!
...and...
Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

He attempts to threaten:
and oh yes, you have ****ed off the worst person you could have
possibly picked to confront on this issue...trust me!!!

Continues professionally:
God, what a ****ing moron you are.

...and then retracts the threat:
Threatening my ass! The only threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them; I would have
marched into your GD lobby with several dozen other "interested"
parties from the aviation community and demanded that you remove my name
and any reference of me from your website!
Go on moron, show us some more threats other than that!

Some unsolicited advice: think, _then_ post. You will come off
sounding much more reasoned and professional if you do.

Chris

(I happen to believe that Jay actually meant it when he said 'The
"Cool Videos" title pre-dates many of the tragic videos that are now
on that page. I shall change it to something more appropriate when I
get a minute.')

And I see he has changed it now. I agree with your coments about Dudley's
posts; I cannot see either jsut why he got so very angry either. I suppose
we all have our triggers...

John

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
First "Dudley Henriques" writes:
Right! I'll inform the rest of the world immediately! They'll want
to
retract fifty years of sought after professional advice.

Then he professionally advises:
Oh give me a ****ing break!
...and...
Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

He attempts to threaten:
and oh yes, you have ****ed off the worst person you could have
possibly picked to confront on this issue...trust me!!!

Continues professionally:
God, what a ****ing moron you are.

...and then retracts the threat:
Threatening my ass! The only threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted
to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use
of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them; I would
have
marched into your GD lobby with several dozen other "interested"
parties from the aviation community and demanded that you remove my
name
and any reference of me from your website!
Go on moron, show us some more threats other than that!

Some unsolicited advice: think, _then_ post. You will come off
sounding much more reasoned and professional if you do.

Chris

(I happen to believe that Jay actually meant it when he said 'The
"Cool Videos" title pre-dates many of the tragic videos that are now
on that page. I shall change it to something more appropriate when I
get a minute.')

And I see he has changed it now. I agree with your coments about
Dudley's posts; I cannot see either jsut why he got so very angry
either. I suppose we all have our triggers...

The "triggers" are quite strong and go very deep. Sorry for the trouble.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
First "Dudley Henriques" writes:
Right! I'll inform the rest of the world immediately! They'll want to
retract fifty years of sought after professional advice.

Then he professionally advises:
Oh give me a ****ing break!
...and...
Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

He attempts to threaten:
and oh yes, you have ****ed off the worst person you could have
possibly picked to confront on this issue...trust me!!!

Continues professionally:
God, what a ****ing moron you are.

...and then retracts the threat:
Threatening my ass! The only threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them; I would have
marched into your GD lobby with several dozen other "interested"
parties from the aviation community and demanded that you remove my
name
and any reference of me from your website!
Go on moron, show us some more threats other than that!

Some unsolicited advice: think, _then_ post. You will come off
sounding much more reasoned and professional if you do.

Chris

(I happen to believe that Jay actually meant it when he said 'The
"Cool Videos" title pre-dates many of the tragic videos that are now
on that page. I shall change it to something more appropriate when I
get a minute.')

And I see he has changed it now. I agree with your coments about Dudley's
posts; I cannot see either jsut why he got so very angry either. I
suppose we all have our triggers...

The "triggers" are quite strong and go very deep. Sorry for the trouble.

No trouble at all. I enjoy reading your posts. I know there must be a reason
you flew off the handle.

John

This is a reasonable response offered intelligently. You are right, and
I apologize to you for the upheaval. The reasons are complicated and I
don't feel the need to expand on them, but you are right, and I was
wrong.
Thank you for the post.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
First "Dudley Henriques" writes:
Right! I'll inform the rest of the world immediately! They'll want to
retract fifty years of sought after professional advice.

Then he professionally advises:
Oh give me a ****ing break!
...and...
Who the hell do you think you're kidding?

He attempts to threaten:
and oh yes, you have ****ed off the worst person you could have
possibly picked to confront on this issue...trust me!!!

Continues professionally:
God, what a ****ing moron you are.

...and then retracts the threat:
Threatening my ass! The only threats
you have received from me is the threat that had I actually posted to
your site in the interest of flight safety; then discovered your use
of
the two words "COOL" and "ENJOY" with my name under them; I would
have
marched into your GD lobby with several dozen other "interested"
parties from the aviation community and demanded that you remove my
name
and any reference of me from your website!
Go on moron, show us some more threats other than that!

Some unsolicited advice: think, _then_ post. You will come off
sounding much more reasoned and professional if you do.

Chris

(I happen to believe that Jay actually meant it when he said 'The
"Cool Videos" title pre-dates many of the tragic videos that are now
on that page. I shall change it to something more appropriate when I
get a minute.')
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger

Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

Hi Jay,

I'm with you on this one. The fact of the matter is that those events
happened and were recorded on video. The act of watching that video
won't change the fact that the event happened, and is not in itself an
act of disrespect.

I think that Dudley's extreme reaction is probably due to a
realization that he has spent his life performing risky flight and
could have wound up in one of those videos. I recall reading a post
of his describing how he almost took a dirt bath while following a
lead plane through a low altitude loop and had to roll knife edge to
miss some trees. I don't understand the kind of mentality that would
lead someone to take such a risk as that, but he is definitely a
hypocrite to cry foul when someone else wants to watch video tapes of
accidents, or to make them available for viewing. Censorship is the
first step in the road to tyranny.

So Jay, just remember, "sticks and stones will break my bones by names
will never hurt me"! That's about as mature a response as Dudley
deserves for his rant.

Dean

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:Nuu%c.1949$D%.1269@attbi_s51...
Well, I'll give you this much Honek. I missed your "cool" sign for some
reason the first time I checked out your site and posted back on your
"request" that I join you in "changing" things I've already been
changing for the last fifty years; not realizing that sign was there. My
mistake!
I don't give a rat's ass how many posts have addressed this issue. One
fact remains for me when dealing with you on this, and that is the
simple fact that of all the titles you could have used for a site
showing people dying in airplanes you actively thought about it and
CHOSE the phrase "COOL".

You know, Dud, your hypocrisy is really starting to irk me.

1. I've tried to spoon-feed you the explanation for how the page -- an
insignificant page in a gigantic website -- evolved from "cool" videos to
what it is today -- an explanation you have disdained.

2. I have given you every opportunity to explain your ethical (and bizarre)
opposition to the viewing of these videos -- which you have refused to do.

3. I have put up with your condescending tone and sanctimonious attitude --
despite the fact that you quite obviously don't have a clue what you're
talking about.

4. Despite all this, I EVEN GAVE YOU THE CHANCE TO PUT YOUR PERSONAL
IMPRIMATUR ON EACH GOD DAMNED VIDEO, so that they would be truly "safety
oriented" -- an action which you decided you were not qualified to perform.

I have exercised extreme patience with someone I thought was worthy of
admiration and honor over the last several years, hoping that perhaps logic
and good spirits would prevail over irrationality and surliness.

Now you have the audacity and impudence to insult and threaten me, in this
public forum (AND in private email)?

At last your true colors are showing, sir. What a shame.