Stupid pilot tricks

"James M. Knox" wrote in message
2...
"Maule Driver" wrote in
m:

So, as an owner I should know this but I'll ask anyway..... Will
insurance payoff on this one? If he was flying his own plane? If he
was flying Dad's plane?

Assuming all the details were in fact as reported, then:

Flying his own plane - various insurance companies would pay off on all
other planes and structures, but almost certainly not on his. His own
insurance company (if he has insurance) would be eventually be the payee
to
everyone else.

Flying his fathers plane, with permission - insurance would pay off on
everything,


If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred while
he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the insurance
contract?? Or is that a myth??

"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred
while
he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the
insurance
contract?? Or is that a myth??

James' post seems pretty much right on the money to me, except *maybe* the
"flying his own plane" case where he says "his own insurance company would
be [sic] eventually be the payee [sic] to everyone else". The reason for
that "maybe" is that, assuming operating while under the influence is not
covered by the pilot at fault's policy, the true "eventual" payer (not
payee...a payee is someone *to* whom money is paid) would be the pilot at
fault, even though his insurance company may initially pay third-party
claims, and even possibly first-party claims.

In particular, the first thing that happens is that all of the involved
insurance companies look at who they are insuring. If those policies are in
good standing, and the damage is covered by the policy (and in this case, it
probably would be...can't say for sure without looking at each specific
policy), the covered party is protected.

The person who is NOT protected is the pilot flying drunk (most
likely...though there may even be policies that cover piloting while under
the influence). But that's an issue that, for any damage to property
covered by policies in good standing, will be resolved later, by subrogating
(that is, replacing one liable party, the insurance company, with another,
the pilot at fault) the payout back to the pilot at fault.

Note that a key part of James' description is that the son (the pilot at
fault) is almost certainly going to be the ultimate party to pay damages.
Any third party who suffered damage will have their damages covered by some
insurance company, but in each claim the insurance company will turn around
and extract that money from the son.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the son's insurance company
(assuming he has a policy) might try to get out of paying even the third
party claims, but that seems unlikely, and may not even be permitted by the
applicable state insurance regulations. For example, imagine you are
driving along minding your own business, and a drunk driver crashes into
you. Imagine also that, amazingly enough, that driver has a valid insurance
policy in effect. Would you expect your own insurance to have to pay the
damages? Or don't you think that the drunk driver's policy would have to
pay, even if the driver is ultimately not covered by his own policy due to
some provision against drunk driving?

As the representative of the party at fault, it would be the drunk driver's
policy that pays you. Though, of course, your own insurance company may
initially provide payment for the damages, passing on that payment to the
drunk driver and/or his insurance company later.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred
while
he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the
insurance
contract?? Or is that a myth??

...snip...
... Though, of course, your own insurance company may
initially provide payment for the damages, passing on that payment to the
drunk driver and/or his insurance company later.

I would have expected the scenerio as you state here. Thanks for the
complete explanation.

Why not just put it into plain language like an auto policy and refer to
the different coverages?
Liability Insurance
Comprehensive Insurance
Collision Insurance

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...

If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred

while

he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the

insurance

contract?? Or is that a myth??


James' post seems pretty much right on the money to me, except *maybe* the
"flying his own plane" case where he says "his own insurance company would
be [sic] eventually be the payee [sic] to everyone else". The reason for
that "maybe" is that, assuming operating while under the influence is not
covered by the pilot at fault's policy, the true "eventual" payer (not
payee...a payee is someone *to* whom money is paid) would be the pilot at
fault, even though his insurance company may initially pay third-party
claims, and even possibly first-party claims.

In particular, the first thing that happens is that all of the involved
insurance companies look at who they are insuring. If those policies are in
good standing, and the damage is covered by the policy (and in this case, it
probably would be...can't say for sure without looking at each specific
policy), the covered party is protected.

The person who is NOT protected is the pilot flying drunk (most
likely...though there may even be policies that cover piloting while under
the influence). But that's an issue that, for any damage to property
covered by policies in good standing, will be resolved later, by subrogating
(that is, replacing one liable party, the insurance company, with another,
the pilot at fault) the payout back to the pilot at fault.

Note that a key part of James' description is that the son (the pilot at
fault) is almost certainly going to be the ultimate party to pay damages.
Any third party who suffered damage will have their damages covered by some
insurance company, but in each claim the insurance company will turn around
and extract that money from the son.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the son's insurance company
(assuming he has a policy) might try to get out of paying even the third
party claims, but that seems unlikely, and may not even be permitted by the
applicable state insurance regulations. For example, imagine you are
driving along minding your own business, and a drunk driver crashes into
you. Imagine also that, amazingly enough, that driver has a valid insurance
policy in effect. Would you expect your own insurance to have to pay the
damages? Or don't you think that the drunk driver's policy would have to
pay, even if the driver is ultimately not covered by his own policy due to
some provision against drunk driving?

As the representative of the party at fault, it would be the drunk driver's
policy that pays you. Though, of course, your own insurance company may
initially provide payment for the damages, passing on that payment to the
drunk driver and/or his insurance company later.

Pete

john smith wrote:

Why not just put it into plain language like an auto policy and refer to
the different coverages?

Well, Pete was answering the original questions which was "who pays". He seemed to do
a bangup job of doing that, as far as I'm concerned.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Thanks all - makes sense.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred
while
he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the
insurance
contract?? Or is that a myth??

James' post seems pretty much right on the money to me, except *maybe* the
"flying his own plane" case where he says "his own insurance company would
be [sic] eventually be the payee [sic] to everyone else". The reason for
that "maybe" is that, assuming operating while under the influence is not
covered by the pilot at fault's policy, the true "eventual" payer (not
payee...a payee is someone *to* whom money is paid) would be the pilot at
fault, even though his insurance company may initially pay third-party
claims, and even possibly first-party claims.

In particular, the first thing that happens is that all of the involved
insurance companies look at who they are insuring. If those policies are
in
good standing, and the damage is covered by the policy (and in this case,
it
probably would be...can't say for sure without looking at each specific
policy), the covered party is protected.

The person who is NOT protected is the pilot flying drunk (most
likely...though there may even be policies that cover piloting while under
the influence). But that's an issue that, for any damage to property
covered by policies in good standing, will be resolved later, by
subrogating
(that is, replacing one liable party, the insurance company, with another,
the pilot at fault) the payout back to the pilot at fault.

Note that a key part of James' description is that the son (the pilot at
fault) is almost certainly going to be the ultimate party to pay damages.
Any third party who suffered damage will have their damages covered by
some
insurance company, but in each claim the insurance company will turn
around
and extract that money from the son.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the son's insurance company
(assuming he has a policy) might try to get out of paying even the third
party claims, but that seems unlikely, and may not even be permitted by
the
applicable state insurance regulations. For example, imagine you are
driving along minding your own business, and a drunk driver crashes into
you. Imagine also that, amazingly enough, that driver has a valid
insurance
policy in effect. Would you expect your own insurance to have to pay the
damages? Or don't you think that the drunk driver's policy would have to
pay, even if the driver is ultimately not covered by his own policy due to
some provision against drunk driving?

As the representative of the party at fault, it would be the drunk
driver's
policy that pays you. Though, of course, your own insurance company may
initially provide payment for the damages, passing on that payment to the
drunk driver and/or his insurance company later.

Pete

Car insurance is different than plane insurance. Every state has its own
rules but usally the state has regs that say, the insurance company has to
pay. With plane insurance that is not always the case. I would alsmost bet
if the insurance was in the drunks name they wont pay. Your policy would pay
and sue the drunk.
"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Icebound" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
If he was proveably intoxicated, would not "his" insurance company fight
against paying anything at all, on the basis that the damage occurred
while
he was involved in an illegal activity, and thus he had voided the
insurance
contract?? Or is that a myth??

James' post seems pretty much right on the money to me, except *maybe* the
"flying his own plane" case where he says "his own insurance company would
be [sic] eventually be the payee [sic] to everyone else". The reason for
that "maybe" is that, assuming operating while under the influence is not
covered by the pilot at fault's policy, the true "eventual" payer (not
payee...a payee is someone *to* whom money is paid) would be the pilot at
fault, even though his insurance company may initially pay third-party
claims, and even possibly first-party claims.

In particular, the first thing that happens is that all of the involved
insurance companies look at who they are insuring. If those policies are
in
good standing, and the damage is covered by the policy (and in this case,
it
probably would be...can't say for sure without looking at each specific
policy), the covered party is protected.

The person who is NOT protected is the pilot flying drunk (most
likely...though there may even be policies that cover piloting while under
the influence). But that's an issue that, for any damage to property
covered by policies in good standing, will be resolved later, by
subrogating
(that is, replacing one liable party, the insurance company, with another,
the pilot at fault) the payout back to the pilot at fault.

Note that a key part of James' description is that the son (the pilot at
fault) is almost certainly going to be the ultimate party to pay damages.
Any third party who suffered damage will have their damages covered by
some
insurance company, but in each claim the insurance company will turn
around
and extract that money from the son.

I suppose it's theoretically possible that the son's insurance company
(assuming he has a policy) might try to get out of paying even the third
party claims, but that seems unlikely, and may not even be permitted by
the
applicable state insurance regulations. For example, imagine you are
driving along minding your own business, and a drunk driver crashes into
you. Imagine also that, amazingly enough, that driver has a valid
insurance
policy in effect. Would you expect your own insurance to have to pay the
damages? Or don't you think that the drunk driver's policy would have to
pay, even if the driver is ultimately not covered by his own policy due to
some provision against drunk driving?

As the representative of the party at fault, it would be the drunk
driver's
policy that pays you. Though, of course, your own insurance company may
initially provide payment for the damages, passing on that payment to the
drunk driver and/or his insurance company later.

Pete

"aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
Car insurance is different than plane insurance.

In some ways it is. In many ways, it is not.

Every state has its own rules but usally the state has regs
that say, the insurance company has to pay.

As I said.

With plane insurance that is not always the case.

It's not always the case with auto insurance either. Like I said, you have
to look at the state regulations. But the state regulations are mostly
non-specific to the type of insurance; what applies to auto insurance in a
state most often will apply to any similar insurance (including aircraft).

I would alsmost bet if the insurance was in the drunks
name they wont pay.

As I said, it just depends on the state laws and the various insurance
companies. Most of the time, an insurance company does not have the option
to withhold payment to third parties injured by that company's insured
parties.

Pete