First "real" hold (long)

"Roy Smith" wrote:
I suppose so. I always have this feeling my old CFII is sitting in the
right seat, shaking his head when I don't do something "by the book."

Single-pilot IFR is all about task prioritization. Take care of the
important stuff, and don't waste time on the **** that doesn't matter.
As long as you stay in the protected airspace, nobody cares what your
holds look like, or how perfectly timed the legs are.

Save the mental effort for important things like making sure your fuel
planning is right, getting a good picture of the weather from flight
watch so you know when to divert (and where), and briefing the approach
you're about to fly.

Good points, I know, but after 20 minutes of holding you've done all that
and you'e really in need of something else to do! The PNS controller was
doing a good job of updating aircraft on the freq. about conditions at
nearby airports, but calling FW would have been a good idea.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Ask for 6 mile legs.

"Dan Luke" wrote in message ...
"Roy Smith" wrote:
I suppose so. I always have this feeling my old CFII is sitting in the
right seat, shaking his head when I don't do something "by the book."

Single-pilot IFR is all about task prioritization. Take care of the
important stuff, and don't waste time on the **** that doesn't matter.
As long as you stay in the protected airspace, nobody cares what your
holds look like, or how perfectly timed the legs are.

Save the mental effort for important things like making sure your fuel
planning is right, getting a good picture of the weather from flight
watch so you know when to divert (and where), and briefing the approach
you're about to fly.

Good points, I know, but after 20 minutes of holding you've done all that
and you'e really in need of something else to do! The PNS controller was
doing a good job of updating aircraft on the freq. about conditions at
nearby airports, but calling FW would have been a good idea.

On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:56:11 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:



30 minutes' wait only got the RVR up to 200, so I told Approach I wanted
30 more. I could see the fog becoming patchy south and west of the
airport, but I still had to start considering my fuel state: I might
actually have to fly 250 miles to find somewhere to land with reserves.
Unlikely, but ya gotta go with it. The thought of being above a
thousand square miles of 100' ceilings with low fuel is enough to make
me very conservative.

In the event, after about 20 minutes a C-208 came in and completed the
approach and the rvr was up to 400, so I asked for vectors for another
try. The next technical glitch appeared at the outer marker when the
flaps refused to work until I toggled the handle a few times (at least
it wasn't the landing gear!). That problem dealt with, I headed down
the glide slope with more than usual concentration on keeping the
needles centered; I wanted to make this one. This time I saw enough
lights at DH to give me 100 more feet, and that was it: made it.

Sounds alot like a hold I had several years ago at GTU in Texas.
After trying the NDB approach, I went and held for an hour and ten
minutes until the clouds decided to climb up enought to try again.
What made matters worst, was the fact that we had around a 42 knot
tail wind on the outbound leg, which made for a 15 second outbound
just for a 1 min inbound. Talk about work!

When I asked the controler for another shot, it sounded like he was
feeling sorry for me buy the tone in his voice. He asked me to make
one more round while he moved several aircraft around. Then he gave
me the go ahead. It sure was a pretty site when the runway came into
view. I was glad to be on the ground. I needed the break.


Scott D.

In article , Scott D.
wrote:

What made matters worst, was the fact that we had around a 42 knot
tail wind on the outbound leg, which made for a 15 second outbound
just for a 1 min inbound. Talk about work!

In a situation like that, you can make life easier on yourself by asking
for longer legs.

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:57:31 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:

In article , Scott D.
wrote:

What made matters worst, was the fact that we had around a 42 knot
tail wind on the outbound leg, which made for a 15 second outbound
just for a 1 min inbound. Talk about work!

In a situation like that, you can make life easier on yourself by asking
for longer legs.

You know, honestly that never really occurred to me. That was about
the first real hold that I ever had to do in about 5 years of flying
so my first thought was, am I actually doing this correctly But
that is something to think about if I ever had to do that again.

Today, I was stuck at SAF waiting for the fog to burn off because we
had some avionic/electrical issues on the plane I was flying and I
told my boss that I was not going to fly out of their IFR with some
known issues and that we were going to wait till it went VFR, but in
the mean time, We were out on the flight line when we heard a jet
going missed, we could hear him but could not see him. Then about an
hour later here he came and went again. I knew his pain and felt
sorry for him. Then about another hour later, the fog had lifted
enough and he was able to set it on the ground. It was a Challenger.
I talked to the pilot and asked him how long he had held and he said
that was the longest 2 hours he had ever lived. He said he had enough
fuel for 1 more hour but he didn't thing that "HE" would have made it.


Scott D.

Dan Luke wrote:
Yesterday, for the first time since I got the instrument rating 5 years
ago, I had to hold for real.

It was a reposition flight from Mobile Downtown to Pensacola to pick up
an Angel Flight. When I checked the weather at home at 6am, fog was
reported everywhere on the central Gulf Coast - the nearest legal
alternate I found was Birmingham. Mobile was below minimums, but PNS
was just at minimums and forecast to improve slightly. When I took off,
BFM was still below minimums for the ILS, and when I checked the PNS
ATIS it was 1/4, indefinite ceiling 100.

Did you consider postponing the flight until PNS was reporting weather that you
would need to complete the approach? According to my calculations, this was only
a 46 mile flight, so it wouldn't have delayed your arrival at PNS by much, and
would have saved you a bunch of fuel used in holding, not to mention the risk
exposure of being airborne with nowhere to land.

snip

That problem dealt with, I headed down
the glide slope with more than usual concentration on keeping the
needles centered; I wanted to make this one. This time I saw enough
lights at DH to give me 100 more feet, and that was it: made it.

.... and you also had the required flight visibility?

snip

--
Dave Butler, software engineer 919-392-4367

"Dave Butler" wrote:
Did you consider postponing the flight until PNS was reporting weather
that you would need to complete the approach? According to my
calculations, this was only a 46 mile flight, so it wouldn't have
delayed
your arrival at PNS by much, and would have saved you a bunch
of fuel used in holding, ...

Good question. Yes, I did consider it, but at the time I took off, my
information was that PNS was at minimums with improvement forecast. I
wanted to get the first leg of the Angel Flight started on time if
possible, because there were other people - next leg pilot, patient's
relatives, etc. - waiting on the flight.

...not to mention the risk exposure of being
airborne with nowhere to land

Well, the airplane has 6+ hours endurance at max range power, so I
wasn't _too_ worried.

This time I saw enough lights at DH to give me 100 more feet, and
that was it: made it.

... and you also had the required flight visibility?

To be honest, I must say I did not count how many markings I could see
down the runway. I was spring-loaded for another miss if it didn't look
good to me. At DH I had the threshold lights; 100' lower, it looked to
me like I had plenty of vis.

This was not the first ILS I ever flew to minimums but it was the first
one where I _really_ needed the extra 100' to get in. It was a very
rapid transition from total whiteout to not-so-bad.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan,
You have me beat by about 30 minutes. I had to hold once for 30 minutes
to start and approach into Potomac Airfield near Washington, DC.
Michelle

Dan Luke wrote:

Yesterday, for the first time since I got the instrument rating 5 years
ago, I had to hold for real.

It was a reposition flight from Mobile Downtown to Pensacola to pick up
an Angel Flight. When I checked the weather at home at 6am, fog was
reported everywhere on the central Gulf Coast - the nearest legal
alternate I found was Birmingham. Mobile was below minimums, but PNS
was just at minimums and forecast to improve slightly. When I took off,
BFM was still below minimums for the ILS, and when I checked the PNS
ATIS it was 1/4, indefinite ceiling 100.

The PNS approach controller reported the RVR as 100 with that "are you
sure you want to do this?" tone (don't you just hate to hear that tone
from a controller?), so I told him I'd try one ILS, then go hold a while
if I missed. Sure enough, at DH there was no sign of any lights, so off
to the Saufley VOR I went to wait.

Holding is boring. After a couple of turns to get it nailed, ones
attention tends to wander. It becomes a real effort to remember to
restart the clock outbound each time. I must admit I missed the
outbound flag drop a couple of times in the first 30 minutes and had to
check the GPS to know when to turn back inbound.

It was about this time that a series of technical problems started.
First, the HI bug started sticking, then the portable GPS started losing
satellite link every time I keyed the radio (fixed that by moving the
antenna to a different spot on the glareshield). There were more
problems later.

30 minutes' wait only got the RVR up to 200, so I told Approach I wanted
30 more. I could see the fog becoming patchy south and west of the
airport, but I still had to start considering my fuel state: I might
actually have to fly 250 miles to find somewhere to land with reserves.
Unlikely, but ya gotta go with it. The thought of being above a
thousand square miles of 100' ceilings with low fuel is enough to make
me very conservative.

In the event, after about 20 minutes a C-208 came in and completed the
approach and the rvr was up to 400, so I asked for vectors for another
try. The next technical glitch appeared at the outer marker when the
flaps refused to work until I toggled the handle a few times (at least
it wasn't the landing gear!). That problem dealt with, I headed down
the glide slope with more than usual concentration on keeping the
needles centered; I wanted to make this one. This time I saw enough
lights at DH to give me 100 more feet, and that was it: made it.

By the time the Angel Flight pax were loaded (something of an ordeal)
the field had gone from socked-in to VFR. Very typical Gulf Coast
autumn morning.

Post script: more tech problems.
The pax Lightspeed 25XL headset wouldn't power up - no big deal, I'm
used to things like that with that headset. The next thing was more
serious. My WxWorx setup, which has been solid for a year, crapped out
on me. Actually, it was the Sony notebook it's hosted on. The USB com
port the WxWorx receiver is plugged into went away. I like to do a lot
of things in airplanes, but troubleshooting pc com port problems while
IFR with a couple of nervous pax aboard isn't one of them. I wrapped
the cables up and stowed the pc. This might have been a flight killer
if there had been a lot of convective stuff around. Still, it made me
realize how much I like having other features of the system available,
particularly METARs and TAFs.



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity