Winter flying with retractable gear?

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:00:16 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Teacherjh wrote:


I was taught to tap the brakes to stop the wheels from spinning before tucking
them away. (spinning tires bulge out a bit, or so I was told) I confess I've
never actually looked down (sometimes I fly a cutlass) to see how long it takes
them to stop on their own.


To me that sounds like a good way to have the brakes freeze.
I have never tapped the brakes yet. OTOH I did land with the brakes
locked one time. Interesting experience.


At the rate it takes the Cessna single mains to retract, it's probably
stopped :-)

In the Deb it takes 10 to 12 seconds. POH says not to retract until a
safe altitude has been reached.


I'm not sure how tapping the brakes dislodges any snow. There's very little
shoe travel.

If they've been used the disks are warm to hot. tapping the brakes
could cause water to collect.


Correct, if you've got disks there's not much clearance there to begin
with. For other forms of brakes, it's not even going to do anything.

Of course all this stuff neglects the nose gear.

It doesn't have any brakes to freeze either.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Teacherjh wrote:


I was taught to tap the brakes to stop the wheels from spinning before tucking
them away. (spinning tires bulge out a bit, or so I was told) I confess I've
never actually looked down (sometimes I fly a cutlass) to see how long it takes
them to stop on their own.

At the rate it takes the Cessna single mains to retract, it's probably
stopped :-)

I'm not sure how tapping the brakes dislodges any snow. There's very little
shoe travel.

Correct, if you've got disks there's not much clearance there to begin
with. For other forms of brakes, it's not even going to do anything.

Of course all this stuff neglects the nose gear.

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...
One instructor told
me that you want to tap the brakes before retracting the gear to dislodge
any slush or snow so that it doesn't freeze in the wheel well

I was taught to tap the brakes to stop the wheels from spinning before
tucking
them away. (spinning tires bulge out a bit, or so I was told)

From what I've read, the reasoning is that if the wheel is still spinning,
it can still be spinning off water/slush which can accumulate and freeze
inside the wheel wells.

Paul

One instructor told
me that you want to tap the brakes before retracting the gear to dislodge
any slush or snow so that it doesn't freeze in the wheel well

I was taught to tap the brakes to stop the wheels from spinning before tucking
them away. (spinning tires bulge out a bit, or so I was told) I confess I've
never actually looked down (sometimes I fly a cutlass) to see how long it takes
them to stop on their own.

I'm not sure how tapping the brakes dislodges any snow. There's very little
shoe travel.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Paul,
Tapping brakes stops the rotation before entering the wheel well. You do
not want them spinning into the gear well.
Leaving them down blows off excess slush and snow as well as freezes any
thin residue that may be left. having it freeze in the wheel well can
make it stick into the well.
Michelle

Paul Tomblin wrote:

This will be my first winter flying the club's Lance. One instructor told
me that you want to tap the brakes before retracting the gear to dislodge
any slush or snow so that it doesn't freeze in the wheel well, and I read
somebody else saying that you should hold off retracting the gear after
take-off for a little while to blow the slush and snow off. Should I do
one or the other or both?




--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

Michelle P wrote:
Paul,
Tapping brakes stops the rotation before entering the wheel well. You do
not want them spinning into the gear well.

What do you do about the nose gear?

I can tell you what happens in the Navion. If you yank that gear up as
soon as you brake ground, the nose gear hits a rubber snubber to stop
it's rotation. Smells bad too. If you let it hang out a little
longer, the rotation isn't has bad.

Michelle P wrote:
Paul,
Tapping brakes stops the rotation before entering the wheel well. You do
not want them spinning into the gear well.

What do you do about the nose gear?

I can tell you what happens in the Navion. If you yank that gear up as
soon as you brake ground, the nose gear hits a rubber snubber to stop
it's rotation. Smells bad too. If you let it hang out a little
longer, the rotation isn't has bad.

Paul,
Tapping brakes stops the rotation before entering the wheel well. You do
not want them spinning into the gear well.
Leaving them down blows off excess slush and snow as well as freezes any
thin residue that may be left. having it freeze in the wheel well can
make it stick into the well.
Michelle

Paul Tomblin wrote:

This will be my first winter flying the club's Lance. One instructor told
me that you want to tap the brakes before retracting the gear to dislodge
any slush or snow so that it doesn't freeze in the wheel well, and I read
somebody else saying that you should hold off retracting the gear after
take-off for a little while to blow the slush and snow off. Should I do
one or the other or both?




--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

Paul,

Tapping the brakes prior to retraction is one of aviation's old wives
tales that just hangs in there. The gear wells are large enough to
hold the tires even if they have some bulge from spinning (which isn't
much anyway on our slow little bugsmashers). There are some
transports in which the manual calls for tapping the brakes and some
in which it specifically says not to as the sudden stop on large tires
and wheels can cause the tire to slide on the rim.

Check the manual for your airplane for winter operations. Some
suggest to delay gear retraction for a bit to help blow off
snow/slush/water. The inertia from the spinning tire usually tosses
off most of the contamination (allowing it to freeze to the underside
of the wing g) and waiting a bit to suck the gear up allows the
airflow to take it off the brake discs and other, stationary, portions
of the gear. Having the gear freeze up is pretty rare. More common
will be that you'll taxi through some snow that gets on the brakes, it
melts on the discs and then freezes one or both of the brakes after
takeoff. Just land on centerline to give yourself room for a swerve
as it takes a moment or two of sliding tire(s) before the brake
unfreezes and you have rolling control. Naturally, it occurs when you
make one of those lucky, smooth touchdowns and you hear the squeal of
a tire sliding, then the pop as the ice lets go and things go back to
normal. Not usually a big deal, but folks have gone into the
snowbanks adjacent to the runway due to not reacting quickly enough.

All the best,
Rick

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
This will be my first winter flying the club's Lance. One instructor told
me that you want to tap the brakes before retracting the gear to dislodge
any slush or snow so that it doesn't freeze in the wheel well, and I read
somebody else saying that you should hold off retracting the gear after
take-off for a little while to blow the slush and snow off. Should I do
one or the other or both?

Rick Durden wrote:
Paul,

Tapping the brakes prior to retraction is one of aviation's old wives
tales that just hangs in there. The gear wells are large enough to
hold the tires even if they have some bulge from spinning (which isn't
much anyway on our slow little bugsmashers). There are some
transports in which the manual calls for tapping the brakes and some
in which it specifically says not to as the sudden stop on large tires
and wheels can cause the tire to slide on the rim.

The POH on my Trinidad (1986 TB21) calls for applying the brakes before
retracting the gear. Is there really no reason for this?

--
David Rind