Co-pilot error caused AA 587 crash

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:14:42 GMT, "Allen"
wrote:

This is simply wrong! If you do a check the majority of "SUV" type
vehicles
are not four wheel drive, although SOME of them are available as four
wheel
drive.

Allen.

But they're still classified as light trucks. I have not seen a
single ad or commercial for a two wheel drive SUV.

Corky Scott

4 WD SUV's are available in the Texas/Oklahoma area by special order,
otherwise SUV's at Ford, Dodge, Chevrolet, & GMC dealers are 2 WD.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

Corky Scott wrote:

Since they *MUST* have four wheel drive in order to keep their light
truck status, commercials continually hype the usefulness of their
off-road capability, despite the fact that many of them are sold in
states where no snow or ice normally falls.



Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more. On steep mountain roads a
little rain can make 4WD helpful. Drive down a dirt road after some bad
rain often enough and you will wish eventually wish you had 4WD

--
Chris W

Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania

Chris W wrote:

Corky Scott wrote:

Since they *MUST* have four wheel drive in order to keep their light
truck status, commercials continually hype the usefulness of their
off-road capability, despite the fact that many of them are sold in
states where no snow or ice normally falls.

Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more. On steep mountain roads a
little rain can make 4WD helpful. Drive down a dirt road after some bad
rain often enough and you will wish eventually wish you had 4WD

I think the point is - not may 4WDs of the SUV variety ever see a dirt road.



Graham

Pooh Bear wrote in
:



Chris W wrote:

Corky Scott wrote:

Since they *MUST* have four wheel drive in order to keep their light
truck status, commercials continually hype the usefulness of their
off-road capability, despite the fact that many of them are sold in
states where no snow or ice normally falls.

Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more. On steep mountain roads a
little rain can make 4WD helpful. Drive down a dirt road after some
bad rain often enough and you will wish eventually wish you had 4WD

I think the point is - not may 4WDs of the SUV variety ever see a dirt
road.

Of course, then there's planespotting, they're useful for standing on the
roof to get that elusive reggie!

Bertie

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:29 -0500, Chris W wrote:

Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more.

Guffaw, I live in rural Vermont in the woods off a mile long uphill
dirt road. My wife and I have had no choice but to use 4WD vehicals
if we really want to get home every day. And we still find some days
when even that doesn't work, days when it's raining on top of slush,
on top of ice. Thankfully, those conditions don't occur often.

On steep mountain roads a
little rain can make 4WD helpful. Drive down a dirt road after some bad
rain often enough and you will wish eventually wish you had 4WD

Can't tell you how many 4WD vehicals go off the road up here in
northern NE because the owners assumed that that feature would keep
them on the road in snow and ice. It doesn't. Whether you're driving
a Toyota Camry or a Humvee, go too fast for the corner in snow or ice
and you'll be off the road. The first snow storm of the season is
always a gotcha for many around here for two reasons: 1. The first
several storms, as well as the last several, are usually really greasy
stuff, far more slippery than the snow we get in mid winter. 2.
People do not slow down for the now marginal conditions, they continue
on as if it were summer and pay the price. Ok, there's a third
reason: not changing from the run down summer tires to new winters.

Most SUV's are luxury family vehicals located in suburbia and are not
driven on the dirt roads you mention.

Corky Scott

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:29 -0500, Chris W wrote:

Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more.

Guffaw, I live in rural Vermont in the woods off a mile long uphill
dirt road. My wife and I have had no choice but to use 4WD vehicals
if we really want to get home every day. And we still find some days
when even that doesn't work, days when it's raining on top of slush,
on top of ice. Thankfully, those conditions don't occur often.

On steep mountain roads a
little rain can make 4WD helpful. Drive down a dirt road after some bad
rain often enough and you will wish eventually wish you had 4WD

Can't tell you how many 4WD vehicals go off the road up here in
northern NE because the owners assumed that that feature would keep
them on the road in snow and ice. It doesn't. Whether you're driving
a Toyota Camry or a Humvee, go too fast for the corner in snow or ice
and you'll be off the road. The first snow storm of the season is
always a gotcha for many around here for two reasons: 1. The first
several storms, as well as the last several, are usually really greasy
stuff, far more slippery than the snow we get in mid winter. 2.
People do not slow down for the now marginal conditions, they continue
on as if it were summer and pay the price. Ok, there's a third
reason: not changing from the run down summer tires to new winters.

Most SUV's are luxury family vehicals located in suburbia and are not
driven on the dirt roads you mention.

Corky Scott

It is obvious you have never been to the SE, Mid West, Central, or SW parts
of the country.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

Corky Scott wrote in
:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:51:29 -0500, Chris W wrote:

Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD? You need to get out of the city more.

Guffaw, I live in rural Vermont in the woods off a mile long uphill
dirt road. My wife and I have had no choice but to use 4WD vehicals
if we really want to get home every day.

you could ****ing walk!


Bertie

Chris W wrote in news:E3ygd.83457$cJ3.13329@fed1read06:

Corky Scott wrote:

Since they *MUST* have four wheel drive in order to keep their light
truck status, commercials continually hype the usefulness of their
off-road capability, despite the fact that many of them are sold in
states where no snow or ice normally falls.



Do you seriously think that snow and ice are the only reason to have
4WD?


Of course not. there's the school run, posing next to it at the bar, beer
runs, posing next to it in your driveway, shopping runs, posing next to it
at work, driving into the path of oncoming trains when you dose off to help
with the overpopulation problem, posing inside of it while the cut you out
from under the train, The list is almost endless.

Bertie

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:19:36 GMT, "Ralph Nesbitt"
wrote:

Since when did the average "Soccer Mom SUV" become an "Off Road Vehicle"?
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

Since they were first introduced back in the 70's. It's the loophole
that allows them to qualify as "light trucks" instead of normal
vehicals which means they do not have to conform to the exhaust
emissions regulations all normal cars are held to.

Since they *MUST* have four wheel drive in order to keep their light
truck status, commercials continually hype the usefulness of their
off-road capability, despite the fact that many of them are sold in
states where no snow or ice normally falls.

Where is the reg stateing this? SUV's are the favorites of those that need a
vehicle capable of seating as many as 9, or seating for as many as 6 with
room for their luggage.

Since they are literally (perhaps this has changed recently) built on
truck chassis, people who buy them because they think they are safer
than ordinary cars are mistaken. They, at least until recently, did
not have the crash engineering designed into them that ordinary cars
had. Also, SUV's, because of their higher than normal weight and
higher than normal height, end up being more prone to loss of control
in marginal traction conditions than ordinary automobiles. Or at
least, that is what some experts have attempted to point out for
years.

Built on a light truck chasis yes, The rest is a bit to much fertilizer
IMHO.

Oh yes, almost forgot, SUV's due to their "light truck" status, do not
have to conform to the fuel economy regulations regular cars must
adhere to either. As a result they are collectively known as gas
gusslers and are targeted by green activists for "tickets" against the
environment and some occasional vandalism.

Agree on the fuel economy regs. Gas guzzlers, no more than any other vehicle
in their towing class. Don't know any "Green Activists"

The light truck loophole was created originally to give hard working
farmers a break.

SUV's were originally designed as light closed vehicles for small buisnesses
such as florists, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc that were dressed
up/decked out & marketed to families needing a vehicle larger than a sedan.
Corky Scott

Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote:

"Corky Scott" wrote:

The light truck loophole was created originally to give hard working
farmers a break.

SUV's were originally designed as light closed vehicles for small buisnesses
such as florists, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc that were dressed
up/decked out & marketed to families needing a vehicle larger than a sedan.

That is true. I first saw Chevrolet Blazers on highway construction
projects in the mid-1970s, and that was one of the first SUV-like
vehicles, a light truck closed vehicle with 4-wheel drive.

--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com