Leaving the community

kontiki writes:

Oh yeah, I remember photo shoots of Bill Clinton's "hunting trip"
also... in a futile attempt to convince people that he was a "hunter'.


The fact is that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting. It
does not enumerate a "right to hunt".

If people's concerns about the 2nd amendment _did_ have anything to do
with hunting then Bush would have lost -- Bush is doing a great job at
letting logging and oil companies into wildnerness where they were
previously not allowed, and this tends to reduce the number of
beautiful places where folks can enjoy hunting.

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: PGP: finger
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

Then sell your car(s) and your airplane... and your snowmobile... boat too.
Lawnmower and chainsaw while you are at it. Of course you won't need
medicine or anything made of plastic either.

Sell it all and move to the wilderness in a tent and live totally off the
land then I might take your rant seriously. Most American voters felt that
Kerry's campaign speeches (Vs. his actions and lifestyle) demostrated the
same level hypocracy.

Christopher Brian Colohan wrote:
If people's concerns about the 2nd amendment _did_ have anything to do
with hunting then Bush would have lost -- Bush is doing a great job at
letting logging and oil companies into wildnerness where they were
previously not allowed, and this tends to reduce the number of
beautiful places where folks can enjoy hunting.

Chris

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
Then sell your car(s) and your airplane... and your snowmobile... boat
too.
Lawnmower and chainsaw while you are at it.

In the grand scheme of things, our cars use an amount of gasoline several
magnitudes higher than all our private airplanes, snowmobiles, lawnmowers
and chainsaws combined. Maybe a better urban and inter-urban public transit
system, (and less marketing emphasis on automobile horsepower) would allow
us to dramatically reduce auto fuel-usage and still enjoy our airplanes,
snowmobiles, lawnmowers and chainsaws for many eons to come.

Of course you won't need
medicine or anything made of plastic either.


We are over-prescribed anyway :-) .

Christopher Brian Colohan wrote:

If people's concerns about the 2nd amendment _did_ have anything to do
with hunting then Bush would have lost -- Bush is doing a great job at
letting logging and oil companies into wildnerness where they were
previously not allowed, and this tends to reduce the number of
beautiful places where folks can enjoy hunting.

Well, Kerry has supported several pieces of legislation that closed large areas to
hunting of any sort. In addition, logging tends to open up areas for hunting -- I
used to hunt an area in Georgia that was periodically logged for paper pulp. We used
the logging roads to get in. I expect the hunting would have been pretty lousy for a
few years after they cut, though.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

Cecil Chapman wrote:

snip

?, gay marriage

He stated he was against 'gay marriage' - but in favor of civil unions
that allowed long-time gay couples the right to visit their partner in the
hospital, claims to benefits, etc. This is something that I would think
any reasonable person would think a long-time couple would be entitled to
(regardless of the sexual orientation. You know the funny thing about this
kind of bigotry is that it reminds me of what we would hear in the 60's
"Can't let 'coloreds' have any rights and god-forbid they should be
allowed
to marry white-folk". Jeesh,,, doesn't anyone EVER learn from the lessons
of the past.

snip

You're right in your sentiments but like many, misguided by the hype.

It's time we owned up to the real issue(s). It's not about "gay marriage",
it's about whether or not one should be able to marry the one he/she loves.
It's also about whether or not the government should be in the marriage
business at all.

In that regard the Bush campaign clearly clouded the issue. Kerry never said
he was for "gay marriage". Just for civil unions ( a legitimate role for
government considering the way benefits are doled out) and against a
constitutional ammendment. But, just like the Iraq-9/11 connection, most
people believe what they want to.


--
Frank....H

Cecil Chapman wrote:
Guns
He's a hunter,

John Kerry quote. "I take my trusty double barrel 12 gauge, I sneak
around on my belly, I play the wind, you know, I love deer hunting."
Anybody who has actually hunted deer knows what a fool this is.



I'm pretty sure they use guns for that (he's not a
bowhunter). Just because one doesn't support ownership of AK-47's and
public access to armor-piercing bullets doesn't make one an enemy to gun
ownership. In fact, his record as a senator reveals that he has
consistently supported appropriate gun ownership. I own two shotguns and a
couple of rifles - don't hunt, but skeet and target shoot. Even still, I
just don't think the average citizen needs armor-piercing bullets or AK-47's
(unless you live in remote parts of Alaska grin)/.

He has voted against guns every chance he's had.


, taxes

Good point,,, you're right Kerry was clearly against tax breaks for the
wealthy,


Kerry would whack small businesses with his tax the rich mentality.


, the UN.


YIKES! Please tell me that you have most of your teeth

All, actually.


and that you don't
play 'Dueling Banjos' along some remote bayou?

Never been to a bayou.


The United Nations is
LEFTIST?

Leftist would put it too far to the right. They are communistic.


Do you even know the history and original purpose of the United
Nations?

Yes, if we could get back to that I would be fine with it.


What was wrong with having a consensus (and some
help) before blundering into Vietnam... OOPS I mean Iraq?

There's nothing wrong with it. But the right thing to do was go into
Iraq, if the France and Germany still want to screw Iraq on the oil for
food program that's of little consequence to our decision making.

"Cecil Chapman" wrote in message
m...


Guns
He's a hunter, I'm pretty sure they use guns for that (he's not a
bowhunter). Just because one doesn't support ownership of AK-47's and
public access to armor-piercing bullets doesn't make one an enemy to gun
ownership.

Bush does not support ownership of AK-47s, either. Allowing the so-called
"assault weapons" ban to expire had nothing to do with AK-47s or any other
real assault weapon.

In fact, his record as a senator reveals that he has
consistently supported appropriate gun ownership. I own two shotguns and
a
couple of rifles - don't hunt, but skeet and target shoot. Even still, I
just don't think the average citizen needs armor-piercing bullets or
AK-47's
(unless you live in remote parts of Alaska grin)/.

?, gay marriage

He stated he was against 'gay marriage'

What he actually said was that although he was against it, he would support
local actions to institute it or to create it substantively through civil
unions. Typical Kerry -- taking both sides of the position at once.

This is not just a religious issue, no matter how hard you try to paint it
that way. It has serious economic and social ramifications.

Cecil Chapman wrote:

Stupidly, they nominated a guy whose political positions were to the left
of Ted Kennedy's, absolutely ensuring a Bush victory.

There were many traditional Republicans out here -- myself included -- who
would have voted for a conservative Democrat in this election. But there
was just no way for any of us to vote for a guy like Kerry.

The moral for the Democrats: Don't ever nominate an ultra liberal to run
for president again.


I have often wondered how some people come to the conclusions that they do.
Jay,,, for goodness sake you sound like you are a sock-puppet mouthing the
words of his puppeteer (Bush - who was famous for the 'Kerry's just like T.
Kennedy' line). Kerry was far left? How, where? If anything he was as
centrist as Clinton was. You'd think he belonged to the Communist party to
hear the prattle that is coming off of your tongue.

So your definition of puppet is anyone who disagrees with you? He is
far left by almost any definition of the word. Pro nanny state and anti
individual rights.


Unlike the man whose words you mouth, Kerry didn't pull special favors to
get into the National Guard to avoid the draft (he VOLUNTEERED for duty),
Kerry was never arrested DUI, nor was he a cocaine user. While our boys
were ducking bullets and embroiled in a hopeless conflict - Bush was having
beer parties with the boys - occasionally remembering to show up for
National Guard duty. Also, I'll bet you never even took the time to watch
the footage of Kerry before the special hearing on Vietnam (which Bush would
refer to often, without even citing a single in-context quote from) when
Kerry spoke most eloquently without political bile of what was wrong with
the Vietnam War and how it was a mistake. He did this AFTER having been
there (something Bush in his petty cowardice, never did). He went there,
saw how things were going and recognized that we (the US) had made a
mistake. There wasn't a single misspoken word in his speech, back then (you
see, unlike you, I took it upon myself to view all the footage of the
hearing - before forming my opinions). Does integrity mean anything to you?

That's right. He volunteered for duty, took a camera to film himself,
scratched his arm to get back to the states where he could use his film
for political gain. Kind of like Michael Moore with a little more
subterfuge.


I worry about a country where there are individuals that can be so easily
molded with a political dogma and never bother to question or actively
challenge the ideas that are being presented to them. I've voted for
Democratic candidates, I've voted for Republican,,, you want to know why,
Jay? Because it is the benefit for the country that counts not 'belonging
to a club' and following their 'election charter' like some mindless
automaton.

Me too, but Jay never said that he did that.


Your candidate entered a war with an 'enemy' (Saddam) who had not attacked
us while the fellow that directly attacked us is running around, comfortably
making videos and apparently eating well. Bush claimed he was entering the
war to save the people from his cruel tyranny - but what about the massive
genocide that is going on in parts of Africa right now - I haven't heard a
peep from Bush about that, or China's human rights violations, or North
Korea's forming nuclear arsenal ---- Ooops,,,, wait,,,,, I get it
now,,,,,,,, there is no OIL in Africa where innocents are being slaughtered
every day,,, there is no OIL in North Korea.... Isn't it funny,,,, a
president who is against stem cell research (which only the ignorant don't
know) uses embryos and NOT fetuses, has BIG problems with using a frozen
embryo that must be discarded after a certain length of time,,,, BUT he will
NOT hesitate to sacrifice living, breathing, human beings in a war that had
NO business being fought (I'm talking about Iraq here). So, he will put
living human beings (including women and children involved in collateral
damage from bombings that go astray) in body bags,,, but wait! Don't ya
dare touch a frozen embryo in a 'cryogenics' freezer. Can YOU say ,
hypocrisy? God forbid, that you are your loved one needs medical aid that
some new stem cell technology could offer.

I tend to agree that we went into Iraq too soon, but then I don't know
what Bush knew or at least thought he knew. I'm amazed that people
think they they know everything the President knows. We won't know for
40 years what REALLY prompted the invasion.


If there is any hope for our country, it will be when people learn to
abandon their mindless following of party affiliation and do as I (and
others) do; simply vote for the best man/woman for the job.

I agree. Bush was clearly the best candidate of those from which we had
to choose. It didn't even require much brain power to figure that out.


But don't let intelligence or logic, pry you away from your blissful
ignorance. I hope one day, people like you will learn to challenge and
learn more about what they are told as fact FROM ANY SOURCE,,, then we will
REALLY have a great Nation.

Oh, so know disagreeing with you means one is ignorant rather than a
puppet. You are starting to sound like Kerry.


A mind is truly a terrible thing to waste..........

Yes, I feel truly sorry for what remains of yours.... :-)

Matt

Oh, so know disagreeing with you means one is ignorant rather than a
puppet. You are starting to sound like Kerry.

Unfortunately Kerry never said that. But, yes,,, one is truly ignorant, if
they mindlessly espouse the words and ideas of others without ever having
challenged those ideas, themselves.

Every thing you wrote was, literally, the same campaign rhetoric we have
heard from Bush.... The Kerry account is absurd,,, I spoke, at length, with
one of the individuals who served under Kerry. How you could defend a draft
dodger, like Bush; cowardly clinging onto the tails of daddy to get him out
of harms way and into the National Guard is something I cannot help.

Of course, some people think cocaine use, alcoholism and DUI are just fine
examples of a human being and would make FINE presidential material and
moral fiber - Obviously, my ethical bar is higher than your standard....
sad,,, but to each his own I suppose.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Cecil Chapman wrote:

Oh, so know disagreeing with you means one is ignorant rather than a
puppet. You are starting to sound like Kerry.


Unfortunately Kerry never said that. But, yes,,, one is truly ignorant, if
they mindlessly espouse the words and ideas of others without ever having
challenged those ideas, themselves.

Every thing you wrote was, literally, the same campaign rhetoric we have
heard from Bush.... The Kerry account is absurd,,, I spoke, at length, with
one of the individuals who served under Kerry. How you could defend a draft
dodger, like Bush; cowardly clinging onto the tails of daddy to get him out
of harms way and into the National Guard is something I cannot help.

I never defended Bushes military record. I simply stated my opinion of
Kerry's.


Of course, some people think cocaine use, alcoholism and DUI are just fine
examples of a human being and would make FINE presidential material and
moral fiber - Obviously, my ethical bar is higher than your standard....
sad,,, but to each his own I suppose.

Yes, but Kerry didn't get elected so we don't have to worry about any of
the above with respect to our president.


Matt