Why are commuter flights so expensive?

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense, say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2) they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will pay
for you flight to come and gamble.

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense,
say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of
price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant
because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and
thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so
the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2)
they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.




Wonder if I can place that 3-5k on my CREDIT CARD???? ducking


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"Chuck" wrote in message
. com...

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:fIspd.85397$V41.82999@attbi_s52...

Question: WHY do the airlines that fly into Cedar Rapids insist on
flying
back and forth with mostly empty planes? Would it not make sense,
say,
30
minutes before departure, to drop the price until the plane was
full?
This
is basic "Econ 101" -- if empty, lower the price until demand
matches
supply.

Nobody goes to or from Cedar Rapids for the heck of it. Either you
live
there or are going for business. If you're a resident then you've made
plans
weeks in advance, and if you're on business you'll go regardless of
price
(more or less). In fact last-minute prices are usually exorbitant
because
people who buy last-minute tickets mroe often *need* to get there and
thus
are willing to pay a lot more. If you're planning a vacation six
months
from
now and tickets to Vegas are $99 and Tampa are $500 then you'll go to
Vegas.
OTOH if your client in Tampa is threatening to give the account to
your
competitor then you'll pony up thousands without a second thought, so
the
airlines take the opportunity to stick it to you.

What's destroying this is the presence of low-cost carriers with very
simple
price models where you don't see 5-1 or 10-1 price disparities between
day-of and advance-purchase tickets.

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals
in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this
is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2)
they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and
wing
it.

-cwk.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket
at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.




Wonder if I can place that 3-5k on my CREDIT CARD???? ducking


Chuck, Yes that is how I did it but make sure you look at the interest rate
for your cash advance it can be worse than the wife? Use a debit card so you
get no interest.

My last commercial flight to Vegas and back was free! Called up my hotel
and
transferred $3,000 in cash to my hotel account they had me an E ticket at
the airport waiting for me when I arrived a few hours later. If you are
going to Vegas call your hotel and open up an account 3 to 5k they will
pay
for you flight to come and gamble.

Free!! what a shmuck!

On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 23:15:58 GMT, C Kingsbury wrote:

FWIW in Europe I see a lot more of these "last minute bargain" deals in
Europe. The travel agents at the airport frequently sell all kinds of
super-cheap seats on flights leaving literally that day. I think this is
more popular there because (1) they have less money to spend and (2) they
take a lot more vacations so they're willing to "take a chance" and wing it.

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

be aware that Europe is still splitted in many nations and is not the size
of the USA, so things work a little (*doh*) bit different here.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40% cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

#m
--
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free,
neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

Consumers in general. I don't think the disparity is enormous and in any
case there's no question that a European with a decent job can enjoy a very
nice quality of life. Also, assuming that an American family and European
one would both budget say $2000 for a vacation, the European family will
likely be trying to spread it across a longer trip. In the US the typical
vacation trip is a week, occasionally ten days, once in a while two weeks.
And that's pretty much it for the year. When I worked for Bertelsmann my
German comrades would typically take three or four weeks off in the summer,
and two or three in the winter. Likewise when I was in Thailand a few years
back, most of the Europeans I ran into were there for at least a month. So
you guys need to stretch your money a little further even if salaries were
identical, which they are not.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40%
cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite welcome.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

Consumers in general. I don't think the disparity is enormous and in any
case there's no question that a European with a decent job can enjoy a
very
nice quality of life. Also, assuming that an American family and European
one would both budget say $2000 for a vacation, the European family will
likely be trying to spread it across a longer trip. In the US the typical
vacation trip is a week, occasionally ten days, once in a while two weeks.
And that's pretty much it for the year. When I worked for Bertelsmann my
German comrades would typically take three or four weeks off in the
summer,
and two or three in the winter. Likewise when I was in Thailand a few
years
back, most of the Europeans I ran into were there for at least a month. So
you guys need to stretch your money a little further even if salaries were
identical, which they are not.

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40%
cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite
welcome.

providing those working in the bars and restaurants earn it.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 16:01:03 -0000, Chris wrote:

So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite
welcome.

providing those working in the bars and restaurants earn it.

they have to travel there (to the US) in the first place.

#m
--
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free,
neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite
welcome.

providing those working in the bars and restaurants earn it.


When I worked for a European company I frequently went out for meals with
senior managers visitng from Germany, the UK, etc. We'd spend $385 on dinner
at a steakhouse where you had a waiter, a busboy, and a sommelier serving
the table and they'd sign the credit card slip for $400. At a Chili's-type
place the waitress would be lucky if she got more than change for a dollar.
After the second or third time I gave up trying to explain "American
customs" to them, after all, they were my bosses. The last time we went to
the Palm I thought the waiters were going to jump us on our way out they
were so mad. It was a sign of things to come as the US office failed in
large part because these guys refused to understand that the American market
did not function the same as the European one and they needed a different
strategy.

FWIW I have seen my share of Americans making fools of themselves in other
cultures in both personal and business settings. Perhaps the most humorous
example being a visit to the bullfights in Barcelona. There were four or
five guys in front of us, very obviously American, and every time the
matador would land a killing shot with his sword, they would jump up and
yell, "Touchdown!"

-cwk.

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:54:49 GMT, C Kingsbury wrote:

who has less money? European consumers or the European airlines?

Consumers in general. I don't think the disparity is enormous and in any
case there's no question that a European with a decent job can enjoy a very
nice quality of life.

ok

Also, assuming that an American family and European
one would both budget say $2000 for a vacation, the European family will
likely be trying to spread it across a longer trip.

probably, yes.

In the US the typical
vacation trip is a week, occasionally ten days, once in a while two weeks.

same here.

And that's pretty much it for the year.

maybe, depending on budget and houshold income, there is an additional week
for holidays. For example 10 days to 2 weeks in summer and an additional
week in winter. Or maybe a longer weekend, filled with a holiday and an
additional day off.

When I worked for Bertelsmann my
German comrades would typically take three or four weeks off in the summer,
and two or three in the winter.

this would then be not paid in full. about 4 to 5 weeks is typical. and as
you said: they take some weeks off, but this does not mean that they
drive/fly away.

Likewise when I was in Thailand a few years
back, most of the Europeans I ran into were there for at least a month.

most likely very many retired people. My last holiday was in 2002 - but
this is a different story.

So
you guys need to stretch your money a little further even if salaries were
identical, which they are not.

they aren't, for sure. but you need the plus for paying for your own
insurance etc.; and here we typically only need one job, whereas in the US
many have to work 2 or 3 jobs (which is _VERY_ unusual for Europe).

tickets from Europe to the US east cost (both ways) sell for about EUR
500.00 - and with the fall of the exchange rate it is now about 40%
cheaper
to spend holidays in the US than it was in 2002. So be friendly to those
French .. they (and others) have the money to spend in the US-tourism
industry.

So long as they tip 15% in bars and restaraunts they will be quite welcome.

ah well, as always it comes down to money :-)
hm, you have to bring them to the US in the first place. Politics is doing
its best to keep tourists away. Many tourists only seek "sun, beach, other
culture, other people" and not the USA or any other specific country. So
they can virtually go anyplace else (Cuba, the Dominican Republic or many
countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea [Egypt, Turkey, Greece, ...] are
very popular).

-cwk.

#m
--
The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free,
neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits.
Thomas Jefferson