"bush flying" in the suburbs?

PJ Hunt wrote:

This statute applies to commercial operations.

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

Rich asked for a definition of "approved". That's what Gig provided. The section
he quoted does prohibit commercial operations, but no claim has been made that
that's the entire law in New Jersey. Perhaps "zatatime" can provide a reference
to the statute that prohibits other operations?

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:19:42 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



PJ Hunt wrote:

This statute applies to commercial operations.

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

Rich asked for a definition of "approved". That's what Gig provided. The section
he quoted does prohibit commercial operations, but no claim has been made that
that's the entire law in New Jersey. Perhaps "zatatime" can provide a reference
to the statute that prohibits other operations?

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.


This is snipped from what was posted and seems to me to cover the
issue.

No
aircraft or airman shall utilize, land, or take off from any area of land
or water, unless that area is licensed for such activity, or found and
declared by the commissioner to be vital or necessary for avigation
purposes.

If this does not cover the issue, I'll try to find time to call the
State DOT for clarification of what statute applies. I only know from
practical knowledge that it is not allowed.

HTH.
z

zatatime wrote:

If this does not cover the issue, I'll try to find time to call the
State DOT for clarification of what statute applies. I only know from
practical knowledge that it is not allowed.

I'm probably reading it wrong.

George Patterson
The desire for safety stands against every great and noble enterprise.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 22:19:42 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Rich asked for a definition of "approved". That's what Gig provided. The section
he quoted does prohibit commercial operations, but no claim has been made that
that's the entire law in New Jersey. Perhaps "zatatime" can provide a reference
to the statute that prohibits other operations?

I can't provide a statute, but around 20 years ago while flying the
"slot" I emergency landed my T-Craft on a Hudson River pier (in
Weehawken, on the Jersey side). The emergency landing was OK as far
as both the FAA and state were concerned, but I got in all sorts of
trouble when I flew it out again the next day after the problem was
solved. In the end the feds admittited I hadn't violated any FAR's
and the state aviation people (who actually were very reasonable about
it) decided not to charge me as long as I promised to never land there
again.

-Dana


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On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:29:44 -0500, Dana M. Hague
d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote:

I can't provide a statute, but around 20 years ago while flying the
"slot" I emergency landed my T-Craft on a Hudson River pier (in
Weehawken, on the Jersey side). The emergency landing was OK as far
as both the FAA and state were concerned, but I got in all sorts of
trouble when I flew it out again the next day

There's a closed army air field not far from Boston. Friend of a
friend landed there when he had engine trouble. He was required to
dissasemble the aircraft and truck it out of there; wasn't permitted
to take off.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 14:04:44 -0900, "PJ Hunt"
wrote:

So you CAN go alone or take your friends, as long as you don't charge them
or receive a reward, and land in all the fields you want without prior
permission from the 'commission. Of course you would want to approve it
with the land owner first.

There are indeed private fields in NJ. Of course they may pre-date the
ordinance quoted.

I landed at several such when I took Damian Delgaizo's bush-flying
course.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:37:48 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:

There are indeed private fields in NJ. Of course they may pre-date the
ordinance quoted.

Private airfields / strips, or just regular farm fields?

z

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:54:08 GMT, zatatime wrote:

There are indeed private fields in NJ. Of course they may pre-date the
ordinance quoted.

Private airfields / strips, or just regular farm fields?

Is there a difference?

All I know is that I landed on runways that weren't public-use
airfields. They weren't pastures, if that's what you mean. One of them
had a hangar and a windsock and a mowed strip; I believe that that was
a public-use airfield in the process of going private. The others were
more basic, but all were mowed and clearly visible as runways from the
air, and were used regularly by their owners and their friends.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:14:03 -0800, "Rich S."
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,. . .

Define "approved", sil vous plait.

Rich S.


You'd have to check with the State DOT for a true definition, but the
working definition is any designated public or private heliport, or
airport within the state.

HTH.
z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

You'd have to check with the State DOT for a true definition, but the
working definition is any designated public or private heliport, or
airport within the state.

As with the word "approved" - your definition just substitutes the word
"designated". In order to be meaningful, one needs to know how, by whom and
by what authority. I read Gia's excerpts and it's clear that the NJ state
government has usurped the Federal authority in this area - not that this is
anything new for a state government.

We have much the same type of ordinance in the area I live. A few years ago,
the county decided the sheriff's deputies were getting confused about the
"No Shooting" boundaries and found it difficult to enforce. So, they just
made the whole area out of bounds. If one reads the wording though, it
allows shooting in "designated shooting ranges". They failed to define what
constitutes a shooting range and didn't set up procedures for designation. I
think I have a sign on the property someplace that warns trespassers they
are entering a designated shooting range.

I hate beanery lawyers, but sometimes the stupidity of municipal, county,
state and federal burrocrats leaves one no choice. Most times, the wording
of the law makes little difference when it comes time to go to court. The
judge will interpret however he/she wants.

None of the above should be construed as criticism of any of our wonderful
appointed or elected officials.

Rich "Toe the line" S.