"bush flying" in the suburbs?

Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

wrote in message
ups.com...

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check

Forget about it.

The first problem you have is the Washington DC ADIZ. Basically anything
within 30 nautical miles of DCA is *very* strictly controlled in terms of
arrivals and departures. Assuming you are within this ring there is no
chance you would be allowed to land and depart from anywhere except several
specially-designated fields and after a ton of other rigmarole.

But it is highly unlikely you'd ever get that far. First, there are enough
problems in suburbs with noise complaints coming from people who bought
houses built five years ago next to an airport that has been around since
the Wright bros. were still signing pilots' licenses. To get an idea of what
the world is coming to check out www.stopthenoise.org. This is up in Mass.,
which politically is pretty much the same crowd you get around the Beltway.

And the liability? Let's say your engine fails several hundred AGL on
takeoff. If you're really in the 'burbs then odds are good you're coming
down in a populated area. Whatever gets broken, that property owner whose
field you departed from is getting sued. Hopefully it's just somebody's
patio furniture and not something more difficult to replace.

As for the absolute legality of it, most populated areas have zoning boards
that exercise power approaching that of the Soviet Union. There are almost
certainly enough catch-alls in there to ensure that you would, at the very
least, have to spend a small fortune on lawyers in the process.

YMMV. Free advice is often worth every penny you pay for it.

-cwk.

Go for it. It's not as uncommon as you might think. I live in
Oklahoma City and a couple of guys around here have Super Cubs or
Maules that they go goof around in. Within a very short flight most
cities there are vast areas of undeveloped land you can land a bush
plane on. Here we have two rivers with beautiful smooth sand bars,
several motor vehicle recreation areas and myriad fields.

A couple of years ago we had a guy in a Maule land in a field to drop
his son off at baseball practice at one of our high schools. The local
news station sent a truck out to cover the "crash." I think someone
called the fire department and they came out to watch him take back off
again. It's been a few years, but I think one of the news stations
interviewed the local police department who confirmed that there is
nothing illegal about landing an airplane in a field (duh).

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

I landed in a field once to stop and talk to a land owner. We plopped
down next to his pickup truck and chatted for a while. Not really as
big a deal as you might think.


wrote:
Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and
eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable
for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking
distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are
other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody
on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional
off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

wrote:


However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

Yep, here in Montana it is legal to land on roads. See this months
AOPA, page 62 for what happens when you don't do it right.

The first problem you have is the Washington DC ADIZ
Hm, shoots that idea down....

On 6 Dec 2004 21:07:51 -0800, wrote:

Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional off-airport
landings in the suburbs?

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,
which puts the kabosh on your plan for this state. However in PA and
NY you can land anywhere you want with prior permission from the
owner. I used to know a helicopter pilot who flew Santa in and out of
a small field in town, and someone else who'd take their 180 up to NY
and land on his buddies farm.

Milage varies from state to state.
z

zatatime wrote:



In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,
which puts the kabosh on your plan for this state. However in PA and
NY you can land anywhere you want with prior permission from the
owner. I used to know a helicopter pilot who flew Santa in and out of
a small field in town, and someone else who'd take their 180 up to NY
and land on his buddies farm.

Around here we spend more time in the dirt than on pavement. Are you
saying that in NJ if I own some acerage I can't use it to land on
without the state giving me some kind of approval?

That's how flying ought to be. It shouldn't be any more complicated than a
drive in the country or taking a tractor out on the field.

Shawn
wrote in message
ups.com...
Go for it. It's not as uncommon as you might think. I live in
Oklahoma City and a couple of guys around here have Super Cubs or
Maules that they go goof around in. Within a very short flight most
cities there are vast areas of undeveloped land you can land a bush
plane on. Here we have two rivers with beautiful smooth sand bars,
several motor vehicle recreation areas and myriad fields.

A couple of years ago we had a guy in a Maule land in a field to drop
his son off at baseball practice at one of our high schools. The local
news station sent a truck out to cover the "crash." I think someone
called the fire department and they came out to watch him take back off
again. It's been a few years, but I think one of the news stations
interviewed the local police department who confirmed that there is
nothing illegal about landing an airplane in a field (duh).

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

I landed in a field once to stop and talk to a land owner. We plopped
down next to his pickup truck and chatted for a while. Not really as
big a deal as you might think.


wrote:
Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and
eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable
for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking
distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are
other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody
on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional
off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

"zatatime" wrote in message
...

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,. . .

Define "approved", sil vous plait.

Rich S.

"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"zatatime" wrote in message
...

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,. . .

Define "approved", sil vous plait.

Rich S.


NJ Statues


6:1-2. Definitions
As used in this chapter:

" Aircraft " means any contrivance invented, used or designed for
navigation or flight in the air except a parachute or other contrivance
designed for such navigation but used primarily as safety equipment.

"Airman" means any person who engages in the navigation or direction
of aircraft while under way.

"Airport" means any locality, either of land or water, which is used
for the landing or taking off of aircraft and which meets the requirements
for a rating by the United States department of commerce.

"Commission" means the state aviation commission.

"Director" means the state director of aviation.

"Landing field" means any locality, either of land or water, which is
used for the landing or taking off of aircraft and which does not meet the
requirements for a rating by the United States department of commerce.

6:1-15. Licensing of airports and landing fields
No owner or operator of any airport or landing field shall permit the
owner or pilot of any aircraft to use such airport or landing field for
landing or taking off while engaged in carrying passengers for hire or
reward or instructing students for hire or reward, unless such owner or
operator of the airport or landing field has been granted a license or
temporary letter of authority from the commission for such operation.

No owner or pilot of aircraft shall carry any passengers for hire or
reward from any airport or landing field in this state, unless such airport
or landing field has been granted a license or temporary letter of
authority from the commission for the type of operation to be engaged in.


6:1-43. Use of emergency facility or facility operated exclusively by and
for government; license for aeronautical activity; fixed base operation
It shall be unlawful, except as provided for by the provisions of this
chapter and the rules, regulations and orders adopted pursuant to this
chapter, to operate, use, or cause to be operated or used any avigation
facility intended to accommodate the operation, take-off, or landing of
aircraft , except in the case of emergency or at avigation facilities owned
and operated exclusively by and for the Government of the United States. No
aircraft or airman shall utilize, land, or take off from any area of land
or water, unless that area is licensed for such activity, or found and
declared by the commissioner to be vital or necessary for avigation
purposes. It shall be further unlawful to operate or allow to be operated
without proper license any aeronautical activity-fixed base operation that
is required to be licensed by the provisions of this chapter or the rules,
regulations and orders issued pursuant to this chapter in the interests of
the public health, safety and welfare.

6:1-44. Licenses; aviation facilities and temporary landing areas
The commissioner shall provide for the licensing of airports, landing
strips, or other avigation facilities and temporary landing areas by rules,
regulations and orders adequate to protect the public health and safety and
the safety of those participating in aeronautical activities; provided,
however, that the continued use and operation of airports, landing strips,
and other avigation facilities, in use and operation on the effective date
of this chapter, for which an application for a license shall have been
filed within the time fixed by the commissioner, shall be permitted,
pending the granting or rejection of such applications; and provided
further, that the application for a license for any airport, landing strip,
or other avigation facility in use and operation on the effective date of
this chapter shall be granted, unless the commissioner shall find that such
airports, landing strips, or other avigation facilities are not
constructed, equipped and operated in accordance with the standards and
requirements fixed by the rules, regulations and orders of the
commissioner. Whenever the commissioner or the Director of Aeronautics
shall reject any application for license under the provisions of this
section, he shall state in writing the reasons for such rejection.

The commissioner may further determine it necessary and provide for the
licensing of specific aeronautical activities, fixed base operations, or
persons engaged in specific types of aeronautical activities, or operations
by rules, regulations and orders adequate to protect the public health,
safety and welfare and the safety of those participating in aeronautics.