Talk About A Rude Company,

Oh, yeah...and if you have time to burn and still want to save money, check
out the aviation program at Mt Hood Community College. You'd still fly
locally--I still recommend Gorge Winds over the other FBO--but MHCC has an
instrument simulator as well that is $50/hr with instruction.

Having said that, I never used the sim. Now I'm looking at extending my
financial debt to pay for my commercial training. :

-c

You seem to have a history of creating conflict: your private training, your
shopping for an aircraft, and now more flight training. Every other post
from you is about something not going your way. You may want to reconsider
who the bull****ter truly is.



"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
Hello, Everyone

I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after e-mailing
them about instrument flight training and they responded with a sales
pitch
with out even addressing my questions, So I called then today talked with
a
guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and avoided answering simple
questions. When I asked him what their guarantee was he said why don't you
get flight instruction up there I told him I was looking for a better
value
and the weather up here is not ideal for training environment most all
instructors will not go up in actual because flight FBO will not allow
insurance I guess or they are not comfortable with being in actual them
selves. He then asked me if I had my written test done, I said no I have
been studying but have not been signed off for the test. He then was very
rude and said Don't understand why the instructors would fly with you out
there. I told him it is not me it's their preference fbo insurance ect. he
hangs up on me that is rude. Don't deal with them they sound like a fly by
night operation out to take large sums of money and close down.

This Company Has Triggered My Bull**** Detector.

Company Owner's Information:

Michael Upton
Guaranteed Flight Training
4142 Bannock Ave
San Diego, CA US
92117

"Brad Zeigler" wrote in message
...
You seem to have a history of creating conflict: your private training,
your
shopping for an aircraft, and now more flight training. Every other post
from you is about something not going your way. You may want to
reconsider
who the bull****ter truly is.

Creating conflict? I dont think so! As for my private training the company i
went through right now cannot keep instructors or airplaines and is on its
way out of business, As for purchasing an airplane I had limited funds to
work with and I had to weed through all the junk and junk dealers but in the
end I found a great deal and a great airplane. As for more flight training I
am just trying to weed out the crooks vs. the honst people its my right to
do so. I will share my opinion about the companys that I think are crooks
its my opinion.

You people can pick apart my post all you want so be it, I really don't give
a ****!!!! If this post helps one person from getting their hard earned
money ripped off by this company or have to deal with their arrogance this
post will have served its purpose.

There are a lot of good honest people in aviation and them people know who
they are, they help the GA community and I highly respect them. If you read
my past posts you will see I dont give up on anything. There will be an
honest flight school or instructor out there that will get my hard earned
cash the others will not get 1 cent.

Caveat Emptor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:19:27 -0800, "NW_PILOT"
wrote:



Caveat Emptor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In this case I think Caveat Venditor is more appropriate.

Have you ever asked your local instructor why he won't take you up in
actual?


"NW_PILOT" wrote in
:

Hello, Everyone

I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after
e-mailing them about instrument flight training and they responded with
a sales pitch with out even addressing my questions, So I called then
today talked with a guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and
avoided answering simple questions. When I asked him what their
guarantee was he said why don't you get flight instruction up there I
told him I was looking for a better value and the weather up here is
not ideal for training environment most all instructors will not go up
in actual because flight FBO will not allow insurance I guess or they
are not comfortable with being in actual them selves. He then asked me
if I had my written test done, I said no I have been studying but have
not been signed off for the test. He then was very rude and said Don't
understand why the instructors would fly with you out there. I told him
it is not me it's their preference fbo insurance ect. he hangs up on me
that is rude. Don't deal with them they sound like a fly by night
operation out to take large sums of money and close down.

This Company Has Triggered My Bull**** Detector.

Company Owner's Information:

Michael Upton
Guaranteed Flight Training
4142 Bannock Ave
San Diego, CA US
92117

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
Have you ever asked your local instructor why he won't take you up in
actual?


They don't want to take a beginning IFR student in actual, ware I am at we
get a lot of IFR days this time a year, they also say the 150's and 172's
are under powered for actual conditions they also say something else about
their insurance. It don't matter anymore I have had 2 flight instructors
contact me from Usenet they sound like reasonable high time freelance
instructors with a lot of free time. I will probably be working with one of
them this winter using my airplane also since it has 2 VOR's, GS, DME, ADF,
Current IFR Pito/Static Test.

NW_PILOT wrote:

They don't want to take a beginning IFR student in actual

That's actually reasonable, in my experience. At that point, actual would
largely be a waste of your time and money.

Early in your training, you're working on improving your ability to control
the airplane w/o visual reference (and then w/o certain instruments). This
involves a lot of turning and climbing and such. Unless you're somewhere
where your CFI can get you a clearance for a block of airspace, then this
isn't possible in actual.

I'm no CFI, though, so keep a grain of salt with you as you read this.

- Andrew

They don't want to take a beginning IFR student in actual

That's actually reasonable, in my experience. At that point, actual
would
largely be a waste of your time and money.

I've heard that argument before, and I don't agree with it, though I
can easily see why it might sound compelling.

Maneuvers are all well and good, but IMO what a beginning instrument
student needs more than anything is just time controlling the airplane
by instruments - level flight, turns to headings, climbs and descents,
tracking a VOR/ADF/GPS/whatever - the fundamentals of IFR flight.
Sure, he might need a little help on the departure or approach, but
most of the flight he can handle - and it's great training. The reason
I think many instructors are not too comfortable with doing it is
simple - the student WILL bank the plane to 60 degrees. He WILL let
the airspeed decay almost to stall. He WILL mishandle the plane. But
truly, you need to be off heading for a while before you get off
course, and a 1000 ft block altitude is usually not hard to get. As
long as the instructor is comfortable that he can recover from an
unusual attitude (induced by the student) in IMC without drama, or
better yet talk the student through the recovery, it's not a big deal.
Thing is, some instructors are not terribly comfortable with that.

If the goal is to get the student to the checkride in minimum time,
then this isn't the most efficient way to go. In fact, if that's the
goal, doing any training at night and/or in IMC is not recommended.
But if the goal is to train a student capable of using his airplane to
go places in lousy weather (down to mins) day or night, then more and
earlier exposure to IMC is best. I'm a pretty strong advocate of IMC
early and often, and have even had a low time (about 150 hours) private
pilot with no complex or high performance experience flying actual
night IMC on his second IFR lesson - the first in his Bonanza that he
just purchased that day.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
ups.com...
They don't want to take a beginning IFR student in actual

That's actually reasonable, in my experience. At that point, actual
would
largely be a waste of your time and money.

I've heard that argument before, and I don't agree with it, though I
can easily see why it might sound compelling.

Maneuvers are all well and good, but IMO what a beginning instrument
student needs more than anything is just time controlling the airplane
by instruments - level flight, turns to headings, climbs and descents,
tracking a VOR/ADF/GPS/whatever - the fundamentals of IFR flight.
Sure, he might need a little help on the departure or approach, but
most of the flight he can handle - and it's great training. The reason
I think many instructors are not too comfortable with doing it is
simple - the student WILL bank the plane to 60 degrees. He WILL let
the airspeed decay almost to stall. He WILL mishandle the plane. But
truly, you need to be off heading for a while before you get off
course, and a 1000 ft block altitude is usually not hard to get. As
long as the instructor is comfortable that he can recover from an
unusual attitude (induced by the student) in IMC without drama, or
better yet talk the student through the recovery, it's not a big deal.
Thing is, some instructors are not terribly comfortable with that.

If the goal is to get the student to the checkride in minimum time,
then this isn't the most efficient way to go. In fact, if that's the
goal, doing any training at night and/or in IMC is not recommended.
But if the goal is to train a student capable of using his airplane to
go places in lousy weather (down to mins) day or night, then more and
earlier exposure to IMC is best. I'm a pretty strong advocate of IMC
early and often, and have even had a low time (about 150 hours) private
pilot with no complex or high performance experience flying actual
night IMC on his second IFR lesson - the first in his Bonanza that he
just purchased that day.

Michael


My feeling's also I am not trying to get it in the quickest time possible i
just love to fly, I fell if I get exposed to it early on the better I will
know what it feels like. I don't see how any one can do all their training
with a hood and feel save in actual but I have never been so I don't know
what that is like. My 150 costs me very little to operate why use a
simulator when I have the real thing available maybe it will take longer but
I feel I will get more skill actually flying then in a simulator. But all is
taken care of I have found me an instructor that don't mind actual but
prefers it and is ok using my 150 for the training now talk about a savings.

This is what we have planned sounds really fun.

30 to 50 hours in my 150 & about 10 hours in an arrow add the extra systems
to the mix of things (my choice)

I plan on flying 2 to 3 hours per day 4 to 5 times a week.

1 hour ground preflight

1 hour ground post flight.

I would like to fly 3 to 4 hours per day but he said 3 max in 1 day is
enough.

So how Much is 2 Much?

In rec.aviation.owning Michael wrote:
: They don't want to take a beginning IFR student in actual
snip
: I've heard that argument before, and I don't agree with it, though I
: can easily see why it might sound compelling.
snip
: early and often, and have even had a low time (about 150 hours) private
: pilot with no complex or high performance experience flying actual
: night IMC on his second IFR lesson - the first in his Bonanza that he
: just purchased that day.

Michael I totally agree with you. I hired a CFII and picked up my airplane
in Los Angeles as a 75-hour PP. We flew 2 days (almost 25 hours) of actual
instrument time to get the plane back to Mass. This was a most beneficial
experience.
--
Aaron Coolidge