A380 unveiling, 1/18/05, Live.

Thomas Borchert wrote:
But indeed, the comparison is of limited value, as anyone would find
out who'd try to drive his VW from the US to Europe.

The comparison has meaning from an environmental point of view. Planes
have often been portrayed as being extremely energy inefficient,
consuming vastly more fuel per passenger than cars and generating plenty
of pollution.

This puts the 380 on roughly the same order of magnitude as very fuel
efficient cars, and gives the A380 better fuel economy per pax that
average US vehicles (which I think is more than 10 litres per 100km).

In article , Thomas Borchert says...
But indeed, the comparison is of limited value, as anyone would find
out who'd try to drive his VW from the US to Europe.

I dunno. Russian roads aren't interstates, but they are certainly
present.

nobody wrote:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar:

The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to
a fuel efficient diesel car.

Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a
question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger
mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many
passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as
much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical
passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g.,
450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load
of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile.

Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant
than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect
there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15
liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel,
if 1.5 is the average load of the car.


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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:04:52 -0500, alexy wrote:

nobody wrote:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar:

The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to
a fuel efficient diesel car.

Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a
question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger
mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many
passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as
much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical
passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g.,
450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load
of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile.

Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant
than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect
there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15
liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel,
if 1.5 is the average load of the car.


Exactly. Commercial aircraft, and especially long-haul commercial
aircraft operating the sorts of routes for which the 380 is designed
have far higher occupancy rates than cars, so the number of seats a
car has is irrelevant.
--==++AJC++==--

"AJC" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:04:52 -0500, alexy wrote:

nobody wrote:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar:

The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to
a fuel efficient diesel car.

Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a
question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger
mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many
passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as
much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical
passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g.,
450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load
of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile.

Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant
than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect
there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15
liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel,
if 1.5 is the average load of the car.


Exactly. Commercial aircraft, and especially long-haul commercial
aircraft operating the sorts of routes for which the 380 is designed
have far higher occupancy rates than cars, so the number of seats a
car has is irrelevant.
--==++AJC++==--

On the Asia-Europe rutes I do not doubt that the plane will be more or less
full to the brim...

Nik.

It would be normal corporate behaviour to calculate the "liters per
passenger per 100 Km" using the most optimistic factors. Such as maximum
number of seats, every seat filled, best city pair, no delays of any type,
etc. etc.
The reality will be interesting to see.
Harvey
"alexy" wrote in message
...
nobody wrote:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar:

The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to
a fuel efficient diesel car.

Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a
question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger
mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many
passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as
much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical
passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g.,
450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load
of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile.

Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant
than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect
there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15
liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel,
if 1.5 is the average load of the car.


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Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked
infrequently.

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:26:39 -0500, "H Pinder"
wrote:

It would be normal corporate behaviour to calculate the "liters per
passenger per 100 Km" using the most optimistic factors. Such as maximum
number of seats, every seat filled, best city pair, no delays of any type,
etc. etc.
The reality will be interesting to see.
Harvey
"alexy" wrote in message
.. .
nobody wrote:

Interesting tidbit from Bob Bliar:

The A380 consumes only 3 litres of fuel per pax per 100km, equivalent to
a fuel efficient diesel car.

But what is the operating cost per 100 km?


Interesting stat, but the followup discussion here points out a
question on exactly what this stat is. Is it fuel burn per passenger
mile at max passenger load (i.e., the 380 carries 110 times as many
passengers as the 5-passenger car, but burns less than 110 times as
much fuel per mile) or fuel burn per passenger mile at typical
passenger loads (i.e., the 380 at a typical passenger load of, e.g.,
450 carries 300 times as many passengers as the car at a typical load
of 1.5 people, but burns less than 300 times as much fuel per mile.

But in the car that fuel is only a few cents per mile. On average it's
probably only about 3 to 5% of the operating cost of cars that are
kept 4 years or less. The first three years my TA cost near 57 cents
a mile while the gas at today's prices would be about 10 to 11 cents
per mile. Back then it was about 8 cents a mile. Even at the
inflated gas prices the cost of a car would probably still put gas in
the 5 to 10% range.


Obviously, such a statistic based on capacity is far more significant
than one based on average use. 3 liters/passenger per 100KM? I suspect

Still, the bottom like on something that size will depend not on the
ultimate, but the average. At the end of the year the bean counters
are interested in how much it cost them per passenger mile and the
cost of the fule may, or may not become significant. (it probably
will)

there are MANY 5-passenger cars that will go further than 100KM on 15
liters of fuel, but not may that will go 100KM on 4.5 liters of fuel,
if 1.5 is the average load of the car.

The 380 will probably be the least expensive long haul plane flying,
IF they can use the majority of the seats.

A friend went to Alaska recently in a 747. He commented that they
could have put that many passengers in a commuter. OTOH when my wife
came back from New Zealand last year, every seat was full. The ones
in front of her had three air sick kids which made it a memorable 13
hours.

The one flight probably didn't pay for the taxi time, but the other
probably did quite well.

And my wife's old mini-mini van used to get 38 mpg. Now that it has
near 200,000 miles 262,000 km it doesn't do quite so well. It
probably takes the extra gas to pump out all that oil.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


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Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 03:26:39 -0500, "H Pinder" wrote
some stuff about "380 fuel usage", to which I would like to add the following:

It would be normal corporate behaviour to calculate the "liters per
passenger per 100 Km" using the most optimistic factors. Such as maximum
number of seats, every seat filled, best city pair, no delays of any type,
etc. etc.

So how is that different from car companies releasing fuel efficiency numbers?

Or you think they do those measurements in a big traffic jam with the aircon
running full blast? :-)

Cheers,
Chanchao

A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:

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Well, here we go, guys. It's tomorrow, streamed live on Airbus'
website. ZDF (Zweite Deutsche Fernsehen, Ch. 2, Germany) and CNN
International are going to be covering it as well. Starts tomorrow at
10am GMT (2am PST). Agenda as follows (times are GMT):

07:30
Joint press conference with Noel Forgeard, Airbus President and Chief
Executive Officer, and A380 customer Chief Executive Officers.

10:00 (with live video feed on airbus.com site) Arrival of Heads of
State and Governments
- Mr Jacques Chirac,President of the French Republic
- The Right Honourable Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
- His Excellency Mr Gerhard Schroder, Chancellor of the Federal
Republic of Germany
- His Excellency Mr Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, President of the
Government of the Spanish Kingdom

11:05 [with live video feed on airbus.com site]
- Beginning of ceremony.
- Aircraft Reveal.
- Inauguration of the aircraft.

11:35 End of ceremony.

All feeds will be available at
http://www.airbus.com/events/a380_re...vent/index.asp .

Enjoy.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.sbcglobal.net/~tyketto
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I recorded it. 2 hours of circus, stuffed shirts, talking heads and
enough hot air to levitate the entire A380 production for the next 10
years.
The whole program must have overrun, my recorder switched off before the
plane even got shown.
What a disappointment. I finally got to see the plane in the evening
news. Nice paint scheme, but "rollout"? The plane didn't move one inch.

T.

Tom Peel wrote in
:
I recorded it. 2 hours of circus, stuffed shirts, talking heads and
enough hot air to levitate the entire A380 production for the next 10
years.

Kinda like the discussion of fuel economy here...

Seems the 'roll out' was nothing but the politicians all getting to show
their faces. I bet none of them found time to discuss the large amount of
non-EU content in the A380. Given the "51% American content in terms of
work share value" [1], maybe W should have been given a seat at the dias...

--lw--

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus