faa home study graduation certificate

Even easier, Andrew, is to sign it off using your GROUND INSTRUCTOR
certificate (which is perfectly legit) so you don't have that 3 year
recordkeeping requirement that a CFI has.

Jim



"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
While a CFI signoff is required, there is really no logic behind that
requirement

All right, cool. I'll give it a shot. Thanks very much. I'd be happy to
pay a reasonable fee for it but everybody here wants $70 to do it.. why $70
I don't know but that seems a little high.

Thanks again!




"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
Even easier, Andrew, is to sign it off using your GROUND INSTRUCTOR
certificate (which is perfectly legit) so you don't have that 3 year
recordkeeping requirement that a CFI has.

Jim



"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
While a CFI signoff is required, there is really no logic behind that
requirement

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
[...] There should not be any charge for this service as it only takes
a few minutes to do, and whether you pass or fail does not reflect back
on us.

Of course it does. There may be no FAA penalty associated with a student's
failure, but when you sign off for the student to take the written, you are
making a claim that you know the student to be properly prepared to take the
written.

Maybe you view it differently, but when I say something, I do my best to
make sure I know what I say to be true.

Are you suggesting that if there were no penalty to you as an instructor for
signing off a student to take the practical exam, that you would have no
problem signing off a student for that exam even if you'd never talked to
the student before and never planned to see him again? That seems bizarre
to me.

Pete

You are correct. It doesn't make sense. Now you have made me think about
this.

My reasoning was based on my distrust of the written exams. Most
questions are not based on reality. Who cares if you can calculate fuel
burn down to the last 1/10th of a gallon? I tell my students to get the
written test behind them quickly so that they can start to learn the
useful stuff. Also, the CFI written tests do not require endorsements.
But the CFI test probably carries the most potential damage. An ill-
informed CFI can cause more damage than an ill-informed private pilot.

However, your point is valid, and I will reconsider my statement.



"Peter Duniho" wrote in
:

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
[...] There should not be any charge for this service as it only
takes a few minutes to do, and whether you pass or fail does not
reflect back on us.

Of course it does. There may be no FAA penalty associated with a
student's failure, but when you sign off for the student to take the
written, you are making a claim that you know the student to be
properly prepared to take the written.

Maybe you view it differently, but when I say something, I do my best
to make sure I know what I say to be true.

Are you suggesting that if there were no penalty to you as an
instructor for signing off a student to take the practical exam, that
you would have no problem signing off a student for that exam even if
you'd never talked to the student before and never planned to see him
again? That seems bizarre to me.

Pete

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
You are correct. It doesn't make sense. Now you have made me think about
this.

My reasoning was based on my distrust of the written exams.

Well-founded distrust, I completely agree.

Most
questions are not based on reality. Who cares if you can calculate fuel
burn down to the last 1/10th of a gallon?

Well, as impractical as doing so in real life is, being able to do so shows
a certain amount of "headroom" in being able to make the practical sorts of
calculations. I think of it as sort of providing an extra margin of
performance.

Also, while I seriously doubt this was a goal of the FAA, being forced to
plan things to the smallest detail may prompt at least some pilots to
consider what degree of detail is really necessary. I consider it a happy
serendipitous fallout of a somewhat silly FAA requirement.

I tell my students to get the
written test behind them quickly so that they can start to learn the
useful stuff.

But students who are actively training with you, no doubt, and who are
unlikely to miss the 24-month deadline.

Also, the CFI written tests do not require endorsements.
But the CFI test probably carries the most potential damage. An ill-
informed CFI can cause more damage than an ill-informed private pilot.

But with or without an endorsement, the CFI applicant still needs to pass
the test. An endorsement doesn't affect the applicant's performance on the
test at all.

Which is to say that I agree that the requirement for an endorsement seems a
little dumb. As you suggest, the requirement may be a legacy of when
students weren't paying for the test. Today, if a student wants to pay the
exorbitant fee for a test, even when they aren't prepared to pass it, why
not let them? Who would it hurt?

I just think that regardless of how silly one thinks a requirement is, one
ought to still consider their integrity when making endorsements. If one is
willing to make a written statement that a student is prepared for a test,
one ought to actually verify that the statement is true. I'm happy to hear
you agree (or are at least willing to consider agreeing ).

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:


Also, the CFI written tests do not require endorsements.
But the CFI test probably carries the most potential damage. An
ill-
informed CFI can cause more damage than an ill-informed private
pilot.

But with or without an endorsement, the CFI applicant still needs to
pass
the test. An endorsement doesn't affect the applicant's performance
on the
test at all.





Which is to say that I agree that the requirement for an endorsement
seems a
little dumb. As you suggest, the requirement may be a legacy of when

students weren't paying for the test. Today, if a student wants to
pay the
exorbitant fee for a test, even when they aren't prepared to pass it,
why
not let them? Who would it hurt?

I just think that regardless of how silly one thinks a requirement
is, one
ought to still consider their integrity when making endorsements. If
one is
willing to make a written statement that a student is prepared for a
test,
one ought to actually verify that the statement is true. I'm happy
to hear
you agree (or are at least willing to consider agreeing ).

Pete


I totally agree with you on the last statement, and I am going to
reverse my position from before. I also agree that it is not a good
practice to sign off someone just because it doesn't reflect on the
CFI's record. In fact, after some thought, I think it may even be a
good idea to hold the CFI responsible for the students pass/fail on the
written. The written exam, like the practical exam, is just a small
sampling of the candidate's knowledge. The exams are not comprehensive
evaluations of the student. As an educator, I should have known this.
So it is quite possible for someone to slip through the cracks without
the proper knowledge. The only way to reduce such slips is have several
exams. Then the likelihood of someone slipping through the system will
be minimized. If the endorsement process is treated like an exam (like
it is done for the practical test), then there will be fewer slips. As
in everything, this will impose on the good students, who will have yet
another hoop to jump through.

I did my commercial this way using the ASA DVD's. After completing the
course I did two practice tests that were included, faxed the answers to
ASA, and they faxed a signoff back to me (mailed the original).

Good luck.

"Falky foo" wrote in message
. ..
Hi, thinking of getting my private license. Looking to do ground school
entirely at home, as I already am pretty familiar with most of the
concepts
covered by the FAA written test. FAA Rules say one can take the test
with:

e. A certificate of graduation from an aviation home study
course developed by the aeronautical enterprise providing
the study material. The certificate of graduation must
correspond to the FAA written test for the certificate or rating
sought. The aeronautical enterprise providing the course of
study must also supply a comprehensive written test which can be
scored as evidence that the student has completed the course of
study. When the student satisfactorily completes the written
test, it is sent to the course provider for scoring by an FAA
certificated ground or flight instructor. The instructor
evaluates the test and attests to the student's knowledge of the
subjects presented in the course. Upon satisfactory completion,
a graduation certificate is sent to the student.

I've been looking at Sporty's home study thing. Does anybody know if they
do the CFI signoff/ graduation certificate themselves? That is, does
their
(or anybody's) home study course include a written test which you either
send electronically, or by mail, or (best) is automatically graded and
"signed" by the computer when you complete the test? I'm trying to avoid
giving a CFI $70 so that he can spend 15 seconds looking at my answers and
signing off on the test (sorry CFIs).

I've looked far and wide, and all the home study stuff is very coy about
whether you can use their "certificates of graduation" to satisfy the
above
FAA rule.

Thanks very much!

Gliems home study course will print the certificate on your computer when
you answer all the questions correctly, no other contact needed. Or at least
it used to.

BT

"Falky foo" wrote in message
. ..
Hi, thinking of getting my private license. Looking to do ground school
entirely at home, as I already am pretty familiar with most of the
concepts
covered by the FAA written test. FAA Rules say one can take the test
with:

e. A certificate of graduation from an aviation home study
course developed by the aeronautical enterprise providing
the study material. The certificate of graduation must
correspond to the FAA written test for the certificate or rating
sought. The aeronautical enterprise providing the course of
study must also supply a comprehensive written test which can be
scored as evidence that the student has completed the course of
study. When the student satisfactorily completes the written
test, it is sent to the course provider for scoring by an FAA
certificated ground or flight instructor. The instructor
evaluates the test and attests to the student's knowledge of the
subjects presented in the course. Upon satisfactory completion,
a graduation certificate is sent to the student.

I've been looking at Sporty's home study thing. Does anybody know if they
do the CFI signoff/ graduation certificate themselves? That is, does
their
(or anybody's) home study course include a written test which you either
send electronically, or by mail, or (best) is automatically graded and
"signed" by the computer when you complete the test? I'm trying to avoid
giving a CFI $70 so that he can spend 15 seconds looking at my answers and
signing off on the test (sorry CFIs).

I've looked far and wide, and all the home study stuff is very coy about
whether you can use their "certificates of graduation" to satisfy the
above
FAA rule.

Thanks very much!

I believe Gleim still does it, but you have to pay for the software,
which I think is more than the $70.

"BTIZ" wrote in
news:83yOd.9044$Tt.8973@fed1read05:

Gliems home study course will print the certificate on your computer
when you answer all the questions correctly, no other contact needed.
Or at least it used to.

BT

"Falky foo" wrote in message
. ..
Hi, thinking of getting my private license. Looking to do ground
school entirely at home, as I already am pretty familiar with most of
the concepts
covered by the FAA written test. FAA Rules say one can take the test
with:

e. A certificate of graduation from an aviation home study
course developed by the aeronautical enterprise providing
the study material. The certificate of graduation must
correspond to the FAA written test for the certificate or rating
sought. The aeronautical enterprise providing the course of
study must also supply a comprehensive written test which can be
scored as evidence that the student has completed the course of
study. When the student satisfactorily completes the written
test, it is sent to the course provider for scoring by an FAA
certificated ground or flight instructor. The instructor
evaluates the test and attests to the student's knowledge of the
subjects presented in the course. Upon satisfactory completion,
a graduation certificate is sent to the student.

I've been looking at Sporty's home study thing. Does anybody know if
they do the CFI signoff/ graduation certificate themselves? That is,
does their
(or anybody's) home study course include a written test which you
either send electronically, or by mail, or (best) is automatically
graded and "signed" by the computer when you complete the test? I'm
trying to avoid giving a CFI $70 so that he can spend 15 seconds
looking at my answers and signing off on the test (sorry CFIs).

I've looked far and wide, and all the home study stuff is very coy
about whether you can use their "certificates of graduation" to
satisfy the above
FAA rule.

Thanks very much!

Don't mind paying the bucks for the instruction, just mind paying for a
signature.



"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
1...
I believe Gleim still does it, but you have to pay for the software,
which I think is more than the $70.

"BTIZ" wrote in
news:83yOd.9044$Tt.8973@fed1read05:

Gliems home study course will print the certificate on your computer
when you answer all the questions correctly, no other contact needed.
Or at least it used to.

BT

"Falky foo" wrote in message
. ..
Hi, thinking of getting my private license. Looking to do ground
school entirely at home, as I already am pretty familiar with most of
the concepts
covered by the FAA written test. FAA Rules say one can take the test
with:

e. A certificate of graduation from an aviation home study
course developed by the aeronautical enterprise providing
the study material. The certificate of graduation must
correspond to the FAA written test for the certificate or rating
sought. The aeronautical enterprise providing the course of
study must also supply a comprehensive written test which can be
scored as evidence that the student has completed the course of
study. When the student satisfactorily completes the written
test, it is sent to the course provider for scoring by an FAA
certificated ground or flight instructor. The instructor
evaluates the test and attests to the student's knowledge of the
subjects presented in the course. Upon satisfactory completion,
a graduation certificate is sent to the student.

I've been looking at Sporty's home study thing. Does anybody know if
they do the CFI signoff/ graduation certificate themselves? That is,
does their
(or anybody's) home study course include a written test which you
either send electronically, or by mail, or (best) is automatically
graded and "signed" by the computer when you complete the test? I'm
trying to avoid giving a CFI $70 so that he can spend 15 seconds
looking at my answers and signing off on the test (sorry CFIs).

I've looked far and wide, and all the home study stuff is very coy
about whether you can use their "certificates of graduation" to
satisfy the above
FAA rule.

Thanks very much!