Puchaz Spinning thread that might be of interest in light of the recent accident.

Chris,

Spin training comes right along Stall training. Impending spins first, then
fully developed spins.
Recovery from an impending stall/spin might sometime be as simple as
reducing back pressure and making slight opposite rudder pressure, all the
while continuing the turn. In other words, it may not be necessary to dive
like a rock in the middle of a gaggle because you sense an impending spin.
A fully developed spin on the other hand (such as one resulting from a
cross-controled, or wings-level, skidding turn), may require much more
positive and effective use of anti-spin controls (full opposite rudder and
stick forward). It all depends on the glider and the position of the pitch
trim, some will recover from the spin if you simply let go of the controls.

But spins have to be repeated several times as the student builds-up time,
especially before first soloing any new type of glider, and then on every
BFR. The student will then see all of these different scenarios as his
training progresses.

This is the only way to be safe : With the student having a full
understanding of the different ways it can happen and the different ways to
recover.

"Chris OCallaghan" wrote in message
om...
Thanks Arnold, for the clarification.

Do you supplement your spin training with conditioning exercises to
reinforce the prompt movement forward of the stick at the first sign
of an iminent stall? Repeated spin entries could condition a student
to await the stall break, since we are intentionally trying to develop
a spin, recognize it, and recover. "Hold it back. Good. Feed in some
rudder to skid the turn. Good. Now try to pick up the dropping wing.
Good..." This could unintentionally program a student to await the
stall break rather than reacting instinctively to a prestall by
immediately lowering angle of attack.

Where do you put your spin training in the syllabus? And do you demand
stall onset recognition before and revisit after?

Chris OC

If all you are planning to fly is well behaved and you are a cautious
pilot who never competes, or flies till fatigue set in that is fine.

Conversely a lot of the aircraft out there, and particularly the glass
single seaters will depart into a spin with little warning in the right
circumstances. Recovery attitude is often nearly vertical and the entry
violent. This is especially true of high performance single seaters with
high wingloadings. (lots of water in the wings)

We are also in part of the world that preaches spin identification and
avoidance. I fly a 33 year old glass plane (Standard Cirrus) that has
delightful handling and is relatively easy to fly, up to a point. Beyond
that point the alacrity with which she drops a wing prompted me to go
out and get some real spin training, so at least I have a chance. Maybe
I am just a mediocre pilot, but I am not sure I will not cross the line
some day. Even in a docile K13 the first couple were disorienting and I
recovered more because of the K13's behavior than correct procedure -
and I did this post solo.

Now I am a lot more relaxed in situations where it is possible I might
spin inadvertently like turbulent thermals.

Bruce

Arnold Pieper wrote:
That full-blown glider pilots would question the need for spin training is
unbelievable.
But all the oppinions I read on this tread just shows how much ignorance
there is on the subject, it's really sad.

What nobody seems to realize is that the Puchacz is used more extensively in
SNIP

Stewart Kissel wrote:

'Pull back, Pull back, okay kick in full rudder'-and
the thinking might go-'Gee, how does anyone get into
a spin, this is way to much work'

Yeah, this is pretty useless and I don't do that. Here's something I
posted about 3 years agog.

--------------------


I became a learn to spin convert after
unintentionally spinning on my very first flight in a single seat
glider. I was thermalling and (presumably) got too slow and
uncoordinated and, over she went. I'd had spin training and the recovery
was a no brainer.

I totally agree that teaching spins by pulling the nose up and then
stomping on the rudder is not particularly useful (fun though . I do
demonstrate this technique first so that the student feels what the spin
feels like. Then he won't be surprised and can pay more attention to
what I'm trying to teach.

After the "yank and stomp" spin, I explain that that isn't the spin that
will kill you. At altitude, I simulate a slow base to final spin,
gradually slowing the glider down, pretending that we're over shooting
the runway center line and then "helping" the turn along by adding
inside rudder. As I'm adding rudder, the glider enters the spin AND THE
NOSE WAS NEVER ABOVE THE HORIZON. After about 1/2 a rev, I'll mention
to the student that if this had happened at 400 feet, we'd be dead about
now. It's a real eye opener.



Tony V.