Glider cross-country time toward commercial SEL requrements?

"Matt Michael" wrote in message
om...

One examiner I asked said he didn't know but that if I showed up with
40 hours of balloon cross country he'd tell me to take a hike.

And he would be right, simply drifting acros the landscape for 50+
miles would not meet the requirements, unless you could explain how you were
able to manuver the balloon in reference to landmarks and navaids in
according to the language of 61.1 (b) (3). As others have pointed out, a
cross-country glider flight is a whole 'nuther matter and is much more
difficult than making the same flight in an airplane.

Vaughn



I don't want to show up for a checkride and find out I need 40 more
hours with that infernal contraption screaming away up front.

I don't think that will happen.


Vaughn

(Matt Michael) wrote in message . com...
I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes".

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in
an appropriate aircraft".

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are
saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you".

Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder"
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

I have done exactly this. The bottom line is that you CAN use your
glider XC time, IF you land more than 50 NM from departure. This saved
me about one half of the flight time. Nowadays, that is 25 times $70
per hour = $1,750.

Tom

(Regrets if this gets posted twice. The first time,
it seemed to disappear into bit-space.)

I don't know the answer to the original question, but
I'm interestd to learn the answer(s).

Interesting the FAA requires a flight of 50nm and a
landing away from the originating field to be considered
'XC.' In a glider, if you get more than one thermal
away from home field, you're 'XC.'

While I do want to know the answer, I wonder why the
original poster of this thread would want to 'cut short'
his 'training' time. Yes, he will save money on flying
before he gets his rating, but he's going to spend
the money anyway after he gets his rating, so overall,
I don't see a money savings.

It's odd that we do all we can do to fly as many hours
as we can, gaining experience, having fun, and seeing
new sights with each additional moment in the air.
Then, we look for ways to make our flying time shorter.
I read about and hear about pilots complaining about
diversions dictated by Air Traffic Control and I wonder
why the complaint. Yes, I know it's more money, but
heck, we're going to have to pay to fly anyway. On
one VFR flight in a Cezzna 150, the controller vectored
me around the Class C airport I was approaching to
land due to traffic. He apologized for the diversion,
but I thought it was great. I flew over land I hadn't
been over and got some addtional flying time. Didn't
bother me a bit. Yep, some of us want to build time
and some of us complain when we have to fly more than
we think we should.

What does it take to make us happy?
(I'll settle for a 0.5 knot thermal about right now
:-) )

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
(Facing a long winter, and no wise cracks from the
Northern Plains crowd about the 'long' North Carolina
winters...)

At 06:30 24 November 2004, Tom Seim wrote:
(Matt Michael) wrote in message news:...
I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country
time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical
experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says '50 hours of cross-country flight
of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes'.

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other
things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure
and 'conducted in
an appropriate aircraft'.

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma
City. All are
saying, 'Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to
you'.

Anyone with experience with this question care to
weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 'Wanders Wonder'
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

I have done exactly this. The bottom line is that you
CAN use your
glider XC time, IF you land more than 50 NM from departure.
This saved
me about one half of the flight time. Nowadays, that
is 25 times $70
per hour = $1,750.

Tom

Ray Lovinggood wrote in message news

Interesting the FAA requires a flight of 50nm and a
landing away from the originating field to be considered
'XC.' In a glider, if you get more than one thermal
away from home field, you're 'XC.'


While that is true for qualifying cross country for commercial
airplane it is not an FAA definition of cross country. Qualifying
cross country for ATP does not require a landing at a remote point.
All our glider flights that have a point further than 50nm from the
takeoff point can be used as qualifying cross country for an ATP
rating.

A check of the regs shows that there are several different definitions
of cross country. You have to use the one that is applicable to the
required aeronautical experience.


Andy

Ray Lovinggood wrote in message ...
(Regrets if this gets posted twice. The first time,
it seemed to disappear into bit-space.)

I don't know the answer to the original question, but
I'm interestd to learn the answer(s).

Interesting the FAA requires a flight of 50nm and a
landing away from the originating field to be considered
'XC.' In a glider, if you get more than one thermal
away from home field, you're 'XC.'

While I do want to know the answer, I wonder why the
original poster of this thread would want to 'cut short'
his 'training' time. Yes, he will save money on flying
before he gets his rating, but he's going to spend
the money anyway after he gets his rating, so overall,
I don't see a money savings.

It's odd that we do all we can do to fly as many hours
as we can, gaining experience, having fun, and seeing
new sights with each additional moment in the air.
Then, we look for ways to make our flying time shorter.
I read about and hear about pilots complaining about
diversions dictated by Air Traffic Control and I wonder
why the complaint. Yes, I know it's more money, but
heck, we're going to have to pay to fly anyway. On
one VFR flight in a Cezzna 150, the controller vectored
me around the Class C airport I was approaching to
land due to traffic. He apologized for the diversion,
but I thought it was great. I flew over land I hadn't
been over and got some addtional flying time. Didn't
bother me a bit. Yep, some of us want to build time
and some of us complain when we have to fly more than
we think we should.

What does it take to make us happy?
(I'll settle for a 0.5 knot thermal about right now
:-) )

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
(Facing a long winter, and no wise cracks from the
Northern Plains crowd about the 'long' North Carolina
winters...)

At 06:30 24 November 2004, Tom Seim wrote:
(Matt Michael) wrote in message news:...
I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country
time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical
experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says '50 hours of cross-country flight
of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes'.

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other
things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure
and 'conducted in
an appropriate aircraft'.

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma
City. All are
saying, 'Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to
you'.

Anyone with experience with this question care to
weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 'Wanders Wonder'
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

I have done exactly this. The bottom line is that you
CAN use your
glider XC time, IF you land more than 50 NM from departure.
This saved
me about one half of the flight time. Nowadays, that
is 25 times $70
per hour = $1,750.

Tom


Simple: you can't carry passengers while training.

If it does not specifically specify an airplane, Helicoptor, Glider,
etc. Then any aircraft will work for the requirement.

So, From the FARs you show below, you can apply 40 hours of glider
cross country to your Commecial SEL Rating. However you must land at
least 50 miles from your original point of departure for it to count
as a cross country.

I know a few glider pilots that have done this. I have also
transitioned a few Helicopter pilots into airplanes that have done
this as well.

I have spent a fair amount of time conversing with Alan Pinkston of
AFS-600 and the Author the Part 61 FAQ. He also in the past has the
done the training for the examiners, and many examiners have met or
been trained in person by him. I have had to show some of his
responses to my inquires to a few examiners to prove various
interpretations of the rules.

One of my more difficult questions for him was How do I log glider
x-country flights where I do not land 50 miles away? The official
answer came back as you may log it as Cross Country time, however it
can not be used as time towards a rating. Since the only rating that
allows you to log x-country time where you do not land 50 nm away from
your departure point is the ATP rating, and it specifies that it must
be done in an airplane.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL





(Matt Michael) wrote in message . com...
I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience
requirements.

FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10
hours must be in airplanes".

FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight
with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in
an appropriate aircraft".

I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are
saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you".

Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in?

Thanks,
Matt Michael CFIG
Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder"
IS-28B2 Lark N28DG

(Brian Case) wrote in message . com...
Since the only rating that
allows you to log x-country time where you do not land 50 nm away from
your departure point is the ATP rating, and it specifies that it must
be done in an airplane.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL



Per Section 61.159: Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.
Only 100 of the required 500 cross country hours need to be in an airplane.


Andy

In article ,
Andy Durbin wrote:
(Brian Case) wrote in message . com...
Since the only rating that
allows you to log x-country time where you do not land 50 nm away from
your departure point is the ATP rating, and it specifies that it must
be done in an airplane.

Per Section 61.159: Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.
Only 100 of the required 500 cross country hours need to be in an airplane.

It makes sense to me that glider flights which don't involve a landing at
least 50nm away wouldn't count as a X-C towards ASEL. Doing a bunch
of navigation, and then finding the spot, and then landing at a
unknown airport is different from landing at the home field.

I've noticed that there are quite a few (pure) glider pilots I know who have
hundreds of hours but have landed at less than a half-dozen airports.
Obviously this can be safe, and they seem to be enjoying their gliding,
but I have encouraged them to expand their experience by landing out
on purpose at a different airport (and getting an aero-retrieve)
or trailering to different gliderports for launch.

The self-launch guys seem to get the best of both worlds... :O

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Mark J. Boyd