Back to square one on buying an Arrow

Either he doesn't want to sell or he got a higher offer since you made
yours. This guy just doesn't sound straight up. Along those crooked lines,
a quick story about our search...

I found an Aztec that sounded perfect for us. It was in Central Texas but
being sold by the Bank of Boston, in NY. Called the number for the seller,
he could barely speak English and was not interested in talking to me. So I
looked up the N number and called the registered owner in Texas. He was "in
the shower" for 3 days, but his wife was rather pleasant. I did a net
search for other family members and discovered his son was also a pilot, and
in the same town. Called his son and he wouldn't talk about the plane, he
just referred me to the Bank. So I'm thinking it was repossessed and these
guys are broke and ****ed off at the bank.

I dug further and found out that the son and father owned a bank themselves
in Texas. I did a search on their bank and discovered that they as well as
their wives had just been banned by the Feds from working at any bank due to
misappropriation of bank funds. Seems they were using bank money to go on
vacations allll over the country, then not paying the bank back!

What appeared to be a great plane at a fair price quickly turned into a soap
opera that we ran, not walked, away from.

Jim

Wow, interesting story Jim. Sounds like you're "da man" to talk to
aviation sleuth work :-) At the moment, however, I'm way more inclined
to let the deal fall through when/if the owner gets squirly and or is
off his meds for a day. This experience was well worth it and I'm glad
I gave it one last shot within the conditions I had. Oh well, live and
learn. There are lots of Arrows out there, we just need to find the
right one.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Something that you can and should do before going as far as arranging a
pre-buy or purchasing airline tickets is to get a title search and aircraft
records from AOPA. You can also get a CD from the FAA that has ownership
and 337 info. If it turns up something suspicious, you can always ask the
owner about it. It will also show a history of every recorded owner. You
can contact the previous owners to ask why they sold the plane. It will
show if the airplane has been located in a corrosion prone area which should
lead you to ask questions about corrosion prevention. All the form 337's
should also be included which may or may not point out damage or repair
history.

I was able to use information found in title searches to seek out several
A&P's that had worked on some of the planes we were interested in. I found
good and bad. I talked to one previous owner that wanted me to tell him
where the plane was because if I didn't buy it, he wanted to buy it back. I
also located one retired engine builder that, in his time, had a great
reputation of rebuilding engines. The plane they were on however hadn't
flown in 9 years. The engine builder basically told us to forget it. He
said the only way he'd touch it was if they were torn down and inspected.
Next.

Time spent going through all the records will pay huge dividends.

Jim

Jim,

If you really wanted to buy an Aztec from Central Texas, I would have
sold you mine! Still will. And I promise that you won't find that I'm
in trouble with the Feds or anybody connected with a bank. Although
my banker would like it better if I sold the Aztec and put the money in his
bank :-)

Don't both you and your partner each need your own Aztec? :-)

Ronnie

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
Either he doesn't want to sell or he got a higher offer since you made
yours. This guy just doesn't sound straight up. Along those crooked
lines,
a quick story about our search...

I found an Aztec that sounded perfect for us. It was in Central Texas but
being sold by the Bank of Boston, in NY. Called the number for the
seller,
he could barely speak English and was not interested in talking to me. So
I
looked up the N number and called the registered owner in Texas. He was
"in
the shower" for 3 days, but his wife was rather pleasant. I did a net
search for other family members and discovered his son was also a pilot,
and
in the same town. Called his son and he wouldn't talk about the plane, he
just referred me to the Bank. So I'm thinking it was repossessed and
these
guys are broke and ****ed off at the bank.

I dug further and found out that the son and father owned a bank
themselves
in Texas. I did a search on their bank and discovered that they as well
as
their wives had just been banned by the Feds from working at any bank due
to
misappropriation of bank funds. Seems they were using bank money to go on
vacations allll over the country, then not paying the bank back!

What appeared to be a great plane at a fair price quickly turned into a
soap
opera that we ran, not walked, away from.

Jim

Hey Ronnie,
Thanks for the offer, but the one we have has us pretty well occupied.
A nice SuperCub or SuperCruiser might raise my interest as a second plane
though.
Jim

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
We got closer this time. We actually had our verbal offer accepted.

You might be moving too slow. Almost any good airplane that comes up for
sale at a good price is immediately snapped up.

Having the cash in hand at the right time is essential. Don't count on going
half way across the country to do a pre-by if you don't have the money in
your pocket.

Pre-bys are not always what they seem. There are horror stories abound. The
best deals are fast and usually from someone local with a good reputation.
Mostly these are never advertised.

What is really fun is to fly around to popular airports are "hangartalk"
about planes for sale there. There are hundreds of Arrows in California.
Take your time. Spending money is supposed to be fun. Once you see the right
deal, BAM! Take it. Move slow then move fast.

Karl,

PA-18
C-185
PA-18
BC-12D
M-20J
C-180
C-206
C-185 (my current hangar queen)
C-207
C-207

I practice what I preach.

I burned through several looking at Aeronca Champs. I finally decided
that there no longer exists any that meet the FAA's definition of
airworthy (AD's). So, I'm stuck with my Mooney. Not exactly the best
plane to do low and slow in.

-Robert

I burned through several looking at Aeronca Champs. I finally decided

that there no longer exists any that meet the FAA's definition of
airworthy (AD's).

There are plenty. They cost $25K-$35K.

Michael

Jack,

Why don't you guys go fly a Mooney and see what you think. It sounds
like it fits your mission profile and it would give you a bunch more
airplanes to look at? Just my prejudiced opinion. :-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201

Jack Allison wrote:
We got closer this time. We actually had our verbal offer accepted.
That's progress (for this, the 2nd offer we've made on an Arrow).

Things were going well into the weekend. I'd tweaked the prepurchase
agreement from the seller, made plane reservations to fly out and
see/fly/touch/smell the plane, setup the pre-buy inspection, provided a
preliminary timeline to the seller...phew, lots of work.

Sunday evening, I sent the modified prepurchase agreement to the seller
along with a proposed timeline for the pre-buy. Monday evening...wham,
the seller suddenly decides things are out of hand. I get a left hook
to the chin e-mail, completely out of the blue with all sorts of
concerns and a final suggestion that maybe it's better if everyone walks
away from the deal. Whaaaaa...huh???? Houston, we have a problem.

I called my partners and their opinion is pretty much "fine, we keep
looking"...but...I'm not ready to walk just yet. I checked into the
possibility of moving the pre-buy up a day and/or my travel out a day in
order to make a better overall timeline. It's a no-go on both accounts
so the only option is to stick with the original plans. By this point,
I know it's a dead deal. It's just a matter of confirming that fact
with the seller. The seller and I finally talk via phone and, as
expected, we're done. Oh, he gives me a line "If you can rearrange your
travel and the plane is still available, sure, call me back". Ya,
whatever.

Actually, I'm fine with everything. As many folks have advised me,
you've got to be able to walk away if things go south or just don't feel
right. Sure, it's frustrating to spend so much time only to walk away
in the end but, really, given how things suddenly came unglued on this
deal, I'd rather not buy this particular plane.

Ah, this airplane buying stuff...it's a hoot! :-)

Sure Jon, bring your Mooney out to the left coast for a little demo
flight. Just think, you could get a ton of x-c flying in, enjoy our
nice weather, get some great mountain flying experience, etc. Hey,
works for me! :-)

Seriously though, we've toyed with looking at a few other planes but not
really seriously. For me, it's just easier to focus on a particular
plane. Did that when I was hunting down Cardinals and am doing the same
now with Arrows. Doesn't mean we won't explore other options though.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)