BRAC Logic....NAS Brunswick

nafod40 wrote:
Jack Linthicum wrote:
As a sort to token ****ing off of Jeb...

Land is cheaper in the south. Weather is better. The threat is mostly
in
the Pacific. The 777 will have the speed and legs to make the main
site
of basing far less important. So good reasons to realign to the
south,
not just because Jeb lives there. Same thing for Portsmouth Naval
Shipyard.

As for keeping it as a NAF, Andrew's question is a good one. Possible

reasons, in no order or no particular logical structure...

We can just have dets show up at Brunswick on an as-needed basis.
SERE
school support. Ease in the final decomm of the base. Support for
boats
coming out of Bath Iron Works (over 20% of base dedicated to that.)
Toxic waste in ground (easier to keep open than to clean). Maybe some

tenants that have to be there. Big-time Navy Reserve support to the
northeast, even more so as NAS Willow Grove goes away. Maybe shift
Coast
Guard SAR assets from Otis ANG (getting closed) to Brunswick.


The Navy provides a KC-130 tanker for helicopter air refueling, E-2C
aircraft for enhanced air traffic control and [4] P-3 aircraft for
search and rescue operations in the mid-Atlantic region all operating
from Patrick AFB just below Cape Canaveral..

I tend to agree that it's a political thing. Kind of like NASA's
putting Mission Control in Houston (instead of FL) to make LBJ happy.
I also believe that keeping NASB open as opposed to NAS Jax makes
more sense. The urban encroachment issue has already been addressed.
Closer-to-Europe and the North Atlantic OpAreas and Millions spent on
new infrastructure has also been addressed.
I don't believe that NAS Jax will put the P-3/P-8s any closer to
exercise areas, either. When I was stationed at NASB we did a lot of
our exercises off the coast of NJ and VA/NC areas.
Of course NAS Jax is closer to the training ranges in the Bahamas and
Caribbean.
And then of course there's the fact that I just happen to like ME
better than FL.
I don't get it, but then, the guys making these decisions are of a
much higher paygrade than I ever achieved. 8-)

Don McIntyre
Clarksville, TN

On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:59 -0400, nafod40
wrote:

Land is cheaper in the south. Weather is better. The threat is mostly in
the Pacific. The 777 will have the speed and legs to make the main site

777? Who's planning to give the Navy 777s?

Land is cheaper? Who's planning to buy land? NAS Brunswick was
bought in the 1940's.

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/

Andrew C. Toppan wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:59 -0400, nafod40
wrote:


Land is cheaper in the south. Weather is better. The threat is mostly in
the Pacific. The 777 will have the speed and legs to make the main site


777? Who's planning to give the Navy 777s?

Typo. 737s.

Land is cheaper? Who's planning to buy land? NAS Brunswick was
bought in the 1940's.

Brunswick not realigning means Brunswick probably enlarging as something
else realigns. Not neccesarily the base. But in general, cost
living/operating is more expensive in the Northeast.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Coast Guard SAR move from Otis ANGB
(closing) up to Brunswick.

"Arved Sandstrom" wrote:

[ NAS/NAF Brunswick]
Also, it's well-located in the sense that it does not particularly
encroach upon urban areas...which *is* a problem at NAS Jacksonville.

Nit: The base [NAS Jax] didn't encroach upon urban areas - the urban
areas encroached upon the base. Thirty years ago NAS Jax and Mayport
were out the hell and gone in the middle of nowhere. Between then and
now the City of Jacksonville has undergone massive growth, especially
down the West side of the St. Johns. Area's once considered remote
weekend housing (like say, Keystone Heights) are now approaching
suburb status.

It was quite the shock to visit my uncles lakeside cabin... It used
to be five miles down an unpaved single lane road. Now the road is
two lanes, paved, and development is solid from the highway to his
front gate. On the east side of Jax, the city simply stopped at St
John's Blvd, and it was *empty* from there to the beaches... Now it's
solid strip malls and apartment complexes the whole way.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Derek,

Nit: The base [NAS Jax] didn't encroach upon urban areas - the urban areas
encroached upon the base.

Point well-taken, but it matters little if Mohammed goes to the mountain or
the reverse - the result is the same. Unfortunately, encroachers vote in
greater numbers than trees and critters, although not necessarily any more
intelligently.

--
Mike Kanze

"Wineau - A person who drinks wine from a glass."

- Sighted on a T-shirt


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Arved Sandstrom" wrote:

[ NAS/NAF Brunswick]
Also, it's well-located in the sense that it does not particularly
encroach upon urban areas...which *is* a problem at NAS Jacksonville.

Nit: The base [NAS Jax] didn't encroach upon urban areas - the urban
areas encroached upon the base. Thirty years ago NAS Jax and Mayport
were out the hell and gone in the middle of nowhere. Between then and
now the City of Jacksonville has undergone massive growth, especially
down the West side of the St. Johns. Area's once considered remote
weekend housing (like say, Keystone Heights) are now approaching
suburb status.

It was quite the shock to visit my uncles lakeside cabin... It used
to be five miles down an unpaved single lane road. Now the road is
two lanes, paved, and development is solid from the highway to his
front gate. On the east side of Jax, the city simply stopped at St
John's Blvd, and it was *empty* from there to the beaches... Now it's
solid strip malls and apartment complexes the whole way.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

Mike Kanze wrote:
Derek,

Nit: The base [NAS Jax] didn't encroach upon urban areas - the
urban areas
encroached upon the base.

Point well-taken, but it matters little if Mohammed goes to the
mountain or
the reverse - the result is the same. Unfortunately, encroachers vote
in
greater numbers than trees and critters, although not necessarily any
more
intelligently.

--
Mike Kanze

"Wineau - A person who drinks wine from a glass."

- Sighted on a T-shirt


"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
"Arved Sandstrom" wrote:

[ NAS/NAF Brunswick]
Also, it's well-located in the sense that it does not particularly
encroach upon urban areas...which *is* a problem at NAS
Jacksonville.

Nit: The base [NAS Jax] didn't encroach upon urban areas - the
urban
areas encroached upon the base. Thirty years ago NAS Jax and
Mayport
were out the hell and gone in the middle of nowhere. Between then
and
now the City of Jacksonville has undergone massive growth,
especially
down the West side of the St. Johns. Area's once considered remote
weekend housing (like say, Keystone Heights) are now approaching
suburb status.

It was quite the shock to visit my uncles lakeside cabin... It
used
to be five miles down an unpaved single lane road. Now the road is
two lanes, paved, and development is solid from the highway to his
front gate. On the east side of Jax, the city simply stopped at St
John's Blvd, and it was *empty* from there to the beaches... Now
it's
solid strip malls and apartment complexes the whole way.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL


aften spelled "oeno"

Andrew C. Toppan wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the BRAC logic in the realignment of NAS
Brunswick, Maine. The plan is to relocate all the planes to NAS
Jacksonville but keep Brunswick open as a Naval Air Facility.

I can understand the rationale for moving to Jacksonville -
consolidating the P-3/P-8 fleets to a single location makes sense.
One
could argue the relative merits of Brunswick vs. Jacksonville (i.e.
Brunswick probably has better airspace and has just spent millions
upgrading all the base infrastructure), but reality is Florida has
more electoral votes and a guy named Bush is governor. So we won't
argue this part for now....

But why keep Brunswick as a NAF then? The stated reason is "homeland
defense", which doesn't make much sense (nor do the base supporters'
arguments about homeland defense makes sense), since BNAS has no
homeland defense mission. An airfield without airplanes - or even an
airfield with P-3s and C-130s - can't do much defending.

This might make sense if, for example, they moved all the ME ANG
aircraft to Brunswick from commercial airfields, and closed Otis ANGB
(MA) and moved the F-15s further up the coast to be closer to an
incoming threat....but that's not happening. ME ANG's existing
location at Bangor will be getting more aircraft and the F-15s from
Otis will be going further south and west. Those F-15s are really the
only "homeland defense" aircraft in these parts.....so any active
"homeland defense" role for the future NAF Brunswick is fiction.

This really seems to be creating exactly the sort of base we're
trying
to eliminate....an infrastructure that costs money but doesn't
support
any deployable forces. It seems like the Navy will quite reasonably
want to close the base in the next BRAC, since it will be costing
money but doing nothing useful. The communities might reasonably join
in that request, since they would rather have a redevelopment
property
than a locked-up, skeleton-crewed airfield.

Can anyone figure out what's going on here?

--
Andrew Toppan --- --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/


The impact of BRAC on Pensacola is very strange: 1878 jobs are to go to
Millington, TN from the Navy Education and Training Professional
Development and Technology Center at Saufley, 888 to Eglin and the
joint forces training center (vice an earlier proposal for Luke AFB in
AZ), and Naval Officer Candidate School yo-tos its way back to Newport,
RI with 675 jobs.

Jack Linthicum wrote:

The impact of BRAC on Pensacola is very strange: 1878 jobs are to go to
Millington, TN from the Navy Education and Training Professional
Development and Technology Center at Saufley, 888 to Eglin and the
joint forces training center (vice an earlier proposal for Luke AFB in
AZ), and Naval Officer Candidate School yo-tos its way back to Newport,
RI with 675 jobs.

Some other P-cola tidbits...

Realign Naval Air Station Pensacola, FL, by relocating the Naval
Aeromedical Research Laboratory to Wright-Patterson AFB, OH.

Relocate Naval Undersea Medical Institute Groton, CT to Naval Air
Station Pensacola, FL,

Realign Randolph Air Force Base, TX, by relocating Undergraduate
Navigator Training to Naval Air Station, Pensacola, FL.