"normal" procedure for pop-up filing

On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:23:46 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

S Herman wrote:



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

Nothing prevents that. The only rules are that you can not operate
under IFR (or conditions less than VFR). There's no prohibition on
what flight plans you file. You can file to fly B-747's at the flight
levels if you really want.

So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

S Herman wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 14:23:46 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:


S Herman wrote:



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

Nothing prevents that. The only rules are that you can not operate
under IFR (or conditions less than VFR). There's no prohibition on
what flight plans you file. You can file to fly B-747's at the flight
levels if you really want.


So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

Accepting a clearance without an instrument rating (and currency, and
appropriate equipment, and maybe some other things) is not allowed. That's
probably what you meant by "execute".


How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

They practice instrument procedures under VFR. Instrument rated pilots may
actually obtain an instrument clearance and do practice approaches under IFR,
but if the meteorological conditions allow, instrument practice is often done VFR.

S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

"New York Approach, Archer 25629 requests practice ILS 16 into White
Plains".

"Archer 25629, fly heading 180 to intercept the localizer, maintain
3000 until established, cleared ILS 16, maintain VFR at all times".

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
S Herman wrote:
So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?

That's correct. You have to be IFR rated to accept an IFR clearance
(i.e. to act as PIC under IFR). On the other hand, anybody can file
an IFR flight plan. You don't need to be PIC to be a data-entry
clerk.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

If the safety pilot is capable and willing to be be PIC under IFR,
they could do that. But, the answer you were probably looking for is
that you can just ask for a "practice" approach:

The safety pilot would have to be IFR rated.

"S Herman" wrote in message
...

So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?


Correct.



How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?


Always with a safety pilot, usually under VFR.

S Herman wrote:


So a non-IR pilot can file IFR, but cannot then execute that flight
plan, even if VFR conditions exist at all points of the flight?


If that plan involves operating under IFR.

How do IR students practice approaches, etc. when they don't have the
CFII aboard? With a safety pilot?

They either:

1. Let a PIC who is instrument qualified allow them to operate under
IFR.
2. They requiest the practice approach under VFR.

S Herman wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:54:28 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Antoñio" wrote in message
roups.com...

That will guarantee you get flight following?


No, it will do what Ray wants, "pre-file your VFR flight plan with DUATS so
ATC already has a strip on you at initial call-up, just like with IFR."
Nothing can guarantee you get flight following.



This is for IR pilots only, right? A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR
flight plan, can they?

You are probably OK filing the plan, but I think if you request and
receive a clearance ... you are illegal.


Matt

"S Herman" wrote in message
...

This is for IR pilots only, right?


Nope.



A non-IR pilot cannot file an IFR flight plan, can they?


Any pilot can file one, but only an IFR pilot can accept an IFR clearance.
Even though you're filing an IFR flight plan through DUATS with this
procedure the controller isn't going to issue an IFR clearance. An IFR
flight plan is filed only to direct it to ATC, putting "VFR" as the
requested altitude tells the controller you're just seeking traffic
advisories.

A VFR flight plan is a FSS thing so they can find the bodies if
you don't show up. Doesn't go to ATC.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
link.net...

"Antoñio" wrote in message
ups.com...

That will guarantee you get flight following?


No, it will do what Ray wants, "pre-file your VFR flight plan with DUATS
so ATC already has a strip on you at initial call-up, just like with IFR."
Nothing can guarantee you get flight following.

"OtisWinslow" wrote in message
...

A VFR flight plan is a FSS thing so they can find the bodies if
you don't show up. Doesn't go to ATC.


Correct, but if you file an IFR fight plan through DUATS with "VFR" as the
requested altitude it WILL go to ATC.