Stupid Newbie Pattern Question

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I swear, the more I read your posts, the more I doubt that you have
actually piloted an aircraft in the last 10 years.

GPS has changed *everything* about flying -- and clinging to the old
VOR system is just another example of calcified thinking.

I have no doubt that 50 years ago some felt the same way about those
pilots who didn't "have a clue" where the A/N radio ranges were, and
nowadays (every now and then) I hear old timers grumbling about the
loss of our NDB approach into Iowa City. Time doesn't stand still, and
many people long for the familiarity of what they know best -- but
pilots are supposed to be lighter on their feet than the average Joe on
the street.

Change can be difficult to accept, and the elderly often find it easier
to just sit back and feign superiority...but I didn't think you were
*that* old, Pete.


What in the wide, wide world of sports does any of that have to do with the
use of a VOR as a reference point in a position report?



Have you done a cross country flight lately, Pete? I don't mean to
Spokane -- I mean CROSS COUNTRY. If so, you would know how ludicrous
your statement truly is.

If not, you really aren't qualified to comment.

We are about to embark on a cross-continent cross-country flight. If
at any point in the next three days I turn on my VORs, it will be
because I am bored, and we will have listened to all our music CDs.

Stupidly, I might attempt to use my 1950s-tech dual VORs to
"cross-check" my dual GPS-verified position, even though I know that
they are exponentially less accurate instruments.

THAT is the reality of VORs to the modern pilot, Pete. Welcome to the
real world. You should have taken the Blue Pill.



It appears you've lost track of the discussion. We're not talking about
navigating by VOR, we're talking about use of a VOR as a reference point in
a position report. Whether I'm using VOR or GPS to fly the VOR or GPS RWY
36 approach at IOW I'm still going to announce my position over the VOR. An
announcement over a defined and readily identifiable point such as a VOR
tells all but the clueless exactly where I am.

"Maule Driver" wrote in message
. com...

But I know the locals will know where the VOR is.


The transients should as well.



Problem is, the locals will also report their position relative to "the
tanks" or "the bridge", or "5 corners" or other such nonsense for
transients. Even ATC does it at some 'ports.


Anything that appears on the sectional is fair game. That which does not
should not be used.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message

The transients should as well. (know where the VOR'S are)

And you assume this is true, even in the wake of two pilots flying almost to
the Whitehouse?

Lots more out there, where they came from. Argue all you want. Simple fact
is, not all are going to know what VOR's are where, all the time.

Period. Game point match. Reality. A cruel bitch.
--
Jim in NC

The transients should as well. (know where the VOR'S are)
And you assume this is true, even in the wake of two pilots flying almost to
the Whitehouse?

Please clarify, are you holding the ADIZ pilots up as examples of
people who did things as they _should_? I ask because the poster said
that transients SHOULD know where the VORs are. I'm not trying to be a
jerk, but I'd argue that you bolstered his argument.

It seems that the ADIZ violators demonstrated that aspects of their
navigation were not as precise as they 'should' be.

"Ben Hallert" wrote

Please clarify, are you holding the ADIZ pilots up as examples of
people who did things as they _should_?

No, not at all. The poster said everyone should know where every VOR is
along their flight. Kinda obvious that many pilots are not nearly that
competant, since the ADIZ pilots could not handle anything as obvious as
Washington. I would bet that they also had no clue of the VOR's around.

I ask because the poster said
that transients SHOULD know where the VORs are. I'm not trying to be a
jerk, but I'd argue that you bolstered his argument.

Perhaps everyone should, but reality says many do not.

It seems that the ADIZ violators demonstrated that aspects of their
navigation were not as precise as they 'should' be.

Without a doubt. They are just two that got caught. Think of how many out
there don't do anything so obvious, to get caught.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

No, not at all. The poster said everyone should know where every VOR is
along their flight.


No poster said anything like that in this discussion.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

No, not at all. The poster said everyone should know where every VOR is
along their flight.

Seems to me, that is implied. If you were buzzing along, and someone made a
call, positioning himself at a VOR, you would need to know where it was, to
know if it was important to you, right? How would you know, if you did not
know where the VOR's along your flight were?
--
Jim in NC


No poster said anything like that in this discussion.

Morgans wrote:

Kinda obvious that many pilots are not nearly that
competant, since the ADIZ pilots could not handle anything as obvious as
Washington. I would bet that they also had no clue of the VOR's around.

There's every indication that they had a fair idea of where they were and
intended to be there. They just didn't know they weren't allowed to run the VFR
corridor anymore. They were only a little off course for that.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

And you assume this is true, even in the wake of two pilots flying almost
to the Whitehouse?


I haven't assumed anything.



Lots more out there, where they came from. Argue all you want. Simple
fact is, not all are going to know what VOR's are where, all the time.


Yup, lots of clueless pilots out there.