TRSA and /X

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Jessica Taylor" wrote in message
news
TRSAs also exist in Class G airspace as well.



Which TRSAs exist in Class G airspace?

You asked this question in another post, but the TRSA at RME airport is
in Class G airspace below 700 feet agl.

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

The predate ARSA's. TRSA's existed when there were only TCA's nad the
FAA hadn't invented ARSA's.


They both predate, and are left-over from, the relevant time periods.

I don't know what above means, but the original statement is still
correct. TRSA's existed long before ARSA's were "invented."

TRSA's are NOT controlled airspace in themselves. Just wannabe radar
service zones.


I don't understand your statement. I've never heard of a TRSA existing in
Class G airspace. All of the ones I've seen have been in Class E airspace,
which certainly is controlled airspace.

But they are not controlled airspace in themselves. It's entirely
analogous to the old airport traffic areas. They were NOT controlled
airspace. A TRSA is just a bunch of lines on the chart that says
"radar services available here."


You are welcome to that opinion. I happen to disagree. It provides a
higher level of service than that offered by most towers in Class D
airspace, and a lower level of service than that offered by radar facilities
in Class C airspace.

It provides different service. A TRSA provides radar service when
class D does not (generally, although there's almost always a class D
tower in the middle of a TRSA). However some class D's provide
radar services without being TRSA's. TRSA's have the side effect of
not necessarily having all the aircraft within it participate, which
makes it inferior to class D and C.


It is a region within Class E airspace where a slightly different type of
radar service is offered from that normally found in Class E airspace. I
would be amazed if there was a TRSA outside of controlled airspace.

It's not always class E.

I certainly don't disagree with your last sentence. That doesn't mean a
TRSA isn't in controlled airspace though.

It's NOT controlled airspace. There are 5 kinds of controlled airspace
in the US: A, B, C, D, and E. They do not overlap. A TRSA may overlap
controlled airspace, but it's jut another concept like a RESTRICTED AREA
etc...

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
But they are not controlled airspace in themselves.

I never said they were. You are correcting a statement that was never made.

[...]
It provides different service. A TRSA provides radar service when
class D does not (generally, although there's almost always a class D
tower in the middle of a TRSA).

So I said.

However some class D's provide
radar services without being TRSA's.

So I said. My statement "It provides a higher level of service than that
offered by most towers in Class D airspace" implies just that, and was
intended to.

TRSA's have the side effect of
not necessarily having all the aircraft within it participate, which
makes it inferior to class D and C.

"Inferior" is in the eye of the beholder. Class D airspace without radar
provides NO separation services. A TRSA provides better separation services
than any non-radar Class D.

It's not always class E.

It's always within controlled airspace, and the only exception to the Class
E is when it intersects with Class D. None of that contradicts what I wrote
earlier.

It's NOT controlled airspace.

Again (since you seem to be having a hard time comprehending this): I never
said it was.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message

However some class D's provide
radar services without being TRSA's.


So I said. My statement "It provides a higher level of service than that
offered by most towers in Class D airspace" implies just that, and was
intended to.


That statement does not imply that some Class D's provide radar services
without being TRSA's.



"Inferior" is in the eye of the beholder. Class D airspace without radar
provides NO separation services.


That's not correct, separation is provided between IFR aircraft in Class D
airspace.



It's always within controlled airspace, and the only exception to the
Class E is when it intersects with Class D. None of that contradicts what
I wrote earlier.


Earlier you said it was only Class E.

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

But they are not controlled airspace in themselves.


I never said they were. You are correcting a statement that was never made.


[...]
It provides different service. A TRSA provides radar service when
class D does not (generally, although there's almost always a class D
tower in the middle of a TRSA).


So I said.


However some class D's provide
radar services without being TRSA's.


So I said. My statement "It provides a higher level of service than that
offered by most towers in Class D airspace" implies just that, and was
intended to.


TRSA's have the side effect of
not necessarily having all the aircraft within it participate, which
makes it inferior to class D and C.


"Inferior" is in the eye of the beholder. Class D airspace without radar
provides NO separation services. A TRSA provides better separation services
than any non-radar Class D.

Doesn't class D airspace provide separation adjacent to the runway to
prevent collisions?




It's not always class E.


It's always within controlled airspace, and the only exception to the Class
E is when it intersects with Class D. None of that contradicts what I wrote
earlier.


It's NOT controlled airspace.


Again (since you seem to be having a hard time comprehending this): I never
said it was.

Pete

"Jessica Taylor" wrote in message
news

Doesn't class D airspace provide separation adjacent to the runway to
prevent collisions?


All towers provide runway separation, that has nothing to do with airspace
classification.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...

It provides different service. A TRSA provides radar service when
class D does not (generally, although there's almost always a class D
tower in the middle of a TRSA).


Do you know of a TRSA which does not have Class D airspace in the middle?



However some class D's provide
radar services without being TRSA's. TRSA's have the side effect of
not necessarily having all the aircraft within it participate, which
makes it inferior to class D and C.


But all of the aircraft in the Class D portion of the TRSA are
participating, just as they are in Class C and other Class D airspace.

Do you know of a TRSA which does not have Class D airspace in the middle?

Do you know that such a beast is impossible, even if it doesn't exist now?

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Do you know that such a beast is impossible, even if it doesn't exist now?


No. Why do you ask?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

Do you know of a TRSA which does not have Class D airspace in the middle?

Yes, I do. The Utica TRSA in central NY, home of Griffiss Approach, at one
time had Griffiss Air Force B-52 airbase as its main airport in the middle
of the airspace. When the Air Force closed the airbase several years ago,
the airport became an uncontrolled airport (with a single 11,800 foot
runway).

However, the TRSA remains, presumably, for Oneida Cty airport. If you look
at the sectional you will note that this class D airport is south of the
"middle" of the TRSA, properly satisfying the criteria of your question.

--
Peter


















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