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Gross Weight



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 9th 05, 01:20 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Bob Moore" wrote in message
. 121...
[...]
At some airlines, I have seen references to "Maximum Gross
Weight" and "Actual Gross Weight", but never just Gross Weight
meaning a certificate limit.


And yet, somehow, we all knew what he meant. We must all be psychic.


  #2  
Old July 8th 05, 02:07 PM
Jose
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How much is too much over gross weight? For example.....the 172 has a gross
weight of 2300 lbs, but what if you are 2345 at time of takeoff.....is that
too much over


Imagine an answer, and then ask how much =beyond= that answer is "too much"?

My answer is that anything over book is too much. It nibbles away at
flight regimes that you might need, and discover too late that you are in.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #3  
Old July 8th 05, 05:18 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Jose wrote:
How much is too much over gross weight? For example.....the 172 has a gross
weight of 2300 lbs, but what if you are 2345 at time of takeoff.....is that
too much over


My answer is that anything over book is too much. It nibbles away at
flight regimes that you might need, and discover too late that you are in.



As a practical matter, if being 45 pounds over gross makes the difference
between somebody going or being left behind, I can tell you that you'll be as
popular as a turd in the punchbowl if you leave that person behind.

As a former part 135 charter and cargo pilot, I can also tell you that you
wouldn't hold on to your job for long if you hold on to your principles so
tightly. Some leeway is expected, as nobody operates in the perfect world
except the FAA... and apparently, you.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE



  #4  
Old July 8th 05, 06:23 PM
Jose
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As a practical matter, if being 45 pounds over gross makes the difference
between somebody going or being left behind, I can tell you that you'll be as
popular as a turd in the punchbowl if you leave that person behind.


Leave some gas behind and alter your flight plan if necessary.

If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #5  
Old July 8th 05, 08:23 PM
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
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Jose wrote:
If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?




It depends on the aircraft. Some are more capable than others. It depends on
the weather. I'm more willing to carry a load in cold weather than hot. Less
in cold wet weather. And it depends on how bad do I need to get there with the
load. And what the consequences are of not doing it.

There is no simple pat answer.... unless you tend to think in terms of black and
white.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE


  #6  
Old July 8th 05, 09:47 PM
Jose
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If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?

It depends on the aircraft.


Well then, what does the word "limit" mean to you?

As a test pilot, I agree there is no simple pat answer, and a previous
post went into many of the factors that go into aircraft handling at
high weights. But I'm not a test pilot, and have no intention of being
one. And I've found in life that most of the time I've gotten into
trouble with the laws of physics has been when I've been "over the
limit" in one form or another. I'll stick with the book.

That said, it would be nice if the book addressed limits a bit more
completely (such as a graph showing the maximum takeoff weight vs
density altitude). It doesn't, so I won't go there.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #7  
Old July 8th 05, 08:39 PM
Fred Choate
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Exactly what we were discussing at work.....

I guess maybe it might relate to how many drinks can I have in a specified
period before driving home.....

Fred

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
As a practical matter, if being 45 pounds over gross makes the difference
between somebody going or being left behind, I can tell you that you'll
be as popular as a turd in the punchbowl if you leave that person behind.


Leave some gas behind and alter your flight plan if necessary.

If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.



  #8  
Old July 8th 05, 09:56 PM
Jose
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Exactly what we were discussing at work.....

I guess maybe it might relate to how many drinks can I have in a specified
period before driving home.....


Actually, I've found alcohol to be quite useful in aviation. In
situations where I'd be over gross, I have a few six-packs of beer. If
the pilot is already flying, then his weight can be subtracted from the
manifest, allowing more cargo, or more fuel. By getting the passengers
suitably high also, I can reclaim almost all the payload that way. So
then, after the passengers have boarded the airplane, I calculate how
much extra fuel each one represents, and have the FBO fill up one of
those big fifty gallon drums full and we load it into the cargo
compartment... you know, the one in the back that says "200 pounds max".
Well, ok 50 gallons is 300 pounds, but if we average that over the
whole airframe we're only 25 pounds over per passenger (and the bigger
the passenger, the less that 25 pounds is, percent wise). And more fuel
makes you safer anyway.

So then I get on the runway, open the throttle, and climb as fast as I
can. Really pull back on that yoke - the plane should climb like a bat
out of hell, since it's virtually empty.

Remember - eight bottles, then throttle.

Jose
(*) kids - don't try this at home!
--
Get high on gasoline. Fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #9  
Old July 8th 05, 09:08 PM
Mike Granby
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If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?


How about as far as airlines go over-weight on a daily basis as a
result of the FAA standard person not being equal to the actual load
they're dealing with? Not everyone weights 170lbs or whatever the
latest number is..........

  #10  
Old July 8th 05, 10:48 PM
Dave Stadt
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"Jose" wrote in message
m...
As a practical matter, if being 45 pounds over gross makes the

difference
between somebody going or being left behind, I can tell you that you'll

be as
popular as a turd in the punchbowl if you leave that person behind.


Leave some gas behind and alter your flight plan if necessary.

If your limit is 45 over gross, how far over your limit is ok?


If you take off 45 lbs. over in a 172 in how many minutes will you be at
gross?


Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.



 




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