No SID in clearance, fly it anyway?

Roy Smith wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Snowbird) wrote:
Um...VFR tower guys (the subject of this subthread
is non-radar towers) don't give vectors.

Is there an official definition of a "VFR tower" or a "non-radar tower"?

I thought so. A VFR tower is one which can not provide separation
services. They have no radar, or a radar (BRITE) which isn't
certified to provide separation. If they issue vectors they are
at the direction of an associated approach control which has to
meet some criteria I don't know about (having to do with how
quickly they can pick up departures on radar).

However, I don't know how NewPS's definition that a heading issued
by a VFR tower is really always a vector actually plays out IRL.
We have definately have headings issued to us by towers where I know
radar contact was over 3000 ft and there was no "suggest" about it.
OTOH we have also had headings given to us outside PC airspace under
VFR where the controller is only supposed to "suggest" headings,
not vector -- "oh, golly, guess I did forget to say 'suggest' ".

So I dunno -- either there are an awful lot of controllers at
VFR towers who have trouble with the word "suggest", or there
are some subtleties to the distinction between heading and
vector. I have no way of knowning.

Cheers,
Sydney

Snowbird wrote:
If they issue vectors they are
at the direction of an associated approach control which has to
meet some criteria I don't know about (having to do with how
quickly they can pick up departures on radar).

This rule applies to all radar facilities. If you want to give vectors
with the takeoff clearance then you have to be able to see departures
within a half mile of the end of the runway. Never a problem when the
radar is on the field, maybe a problem when the radar is across town.



However, I don't know how NewPS's definition that a heading issued
by a VFR tower is really always a vector actually plays out IRL.

If a VFR tower gives a heading to a departing IFR aircraft that is
always a vector. It's just that it either originated with the approach
control facility when the tower requested the IFR release or if the
tower has a letter of agreement with the approach control to
automatically release IFR departures they may have a pie to relaese
those departures into.


So I dunno -- either there are an awful lot of controllers at
VFR towers who have trouble with the word "suggest"

Nope.


, or there
are some subtleties to the distinction between heading and
vector.

Nope.