LSA instructor?

What's wrong with that? As long as you are willing to pay it, they will
charge you for it. They would be idiots if they charged anything less
than the customer was willing to pay.

("W P Dixon" wrote)
[snip]
The metal to build a 601 or Sonex will run in the 3000-4000 price
range, figure an engine to be 10 G , and there is nothing to building one
of these planes so labor SHOULD not be a boatload. But I have seen these
sell for 40-60G , and it's highway robbery. 25G would be good , and 30G
probably not unreasonable. Hey they are not building 777's , just a small
plane. I speak from experience in production of aircraft, from MD-80's to
Learjets.
A greedy company that wants to sell a 25G plane for 50G may sell
100...if he sold them for 25G he has the potential of selling 500, simply
because it opens the market for more people. All I can fly is sport
category and I WILL NEVER pay as much for a light sport plane as a 172,
etc.


Get out your checkbook.

Sonex had a new (LSA) plane at OSH for $24K ...built ...with engine ....and
instruments ...and tires.


Montblack

Sonex had a new (LSA) plane at OSH for $24K ...built ...
with engine ....and instruments ...and tires.

Seriously? An actual, hop in and fly it away airplane? Got a link? I
went to their web site and didn't find it.

If I can get insurance, I think I might just buy it and put it on the
line.

Michael

("Michael" wrote)
Sonex had a new (LSA) plane at OSH for $24K ...built ...
with engine ....and instruments ...and tires.

Seriously? An actual, hop in and fly it away airplane? Got a link? I
went to their web site and didn't find it.


Oops. My mistake. (Just dug through OSH pics) Sign reads:

Build this "Sport Pilot"
Sonex
For $24,000 Complete


Montblack

One of the big reasons certified aircraft are so expensive is liability.
I read somewhere (don't know if true) that of the new cessna's sold
today, $100,000 goes for liability insurance...

"John T" wrote in message
...
One of the big reasons certified aircraft are so
expensive is liability. I read somewhere (don't
know if true) that of the new cessna's sold
today, $100,000 goes for liability insurance...


I would think that to be way off. That would result in an
enormous pot of money collected on their annual unit sales.
The money is paid over to ultimately Lloyd's of London, and
that kind of an expense doesn't fit into their detailed
financial statements in Cessna's SEC filings. Nor is there
any such hint of that big a liability problem in the
necessary narrative in the SEC filings about legal matters.

Fred F.

"TaxSrv" wrote in message
news
"John T" wrote in message
...
One of the big reasons certified aircraft are so
expensive is liability. I read somewhere (don't
know if true) that of the new cessna's sold
today, $100,000 goes for liability insurance...


I would think that to be way off. That would result in an
enormous pot of money collected on their annual unit sales.
The money is paid over to ultimately Lloyd's of London, and
that kind of an expense doesn't fit into their detailed
financial statements in Cessna's SEC filings. Nor is there
any such hint of that big a liability problem in the
necessary narrative in the SEC filings about legal matters.

Fred F.

Cessna self insures.

Insurance companies won't insure classic taildraggers for student solo

That's not true. Insurance companies WILL insure Cubs and Champs and
their ilk for student solo. There's a Cub locally that can be soloed
at 10 hours tailwheel time, 5 hours make and model. Students can solo
it. It's insured - and the owner went cheap on the insurance. He
could have made it the same as the Champ in which I got my tailwheel
signoff - 5 hours tailwheel, CFI checkout - but that cost a bit more.

What insurance companies WON'T insure is students soloing after being
taught by unqualified instructors. The local flgiht school at my home
field has a Citabria on the line, and wants to check out a new
instructor. They plan to take him from zero tailwheel time to giving
dual in a Citabria - in 15 hours. That's when it all goes to hell.
Minimum of 100 (or is it 150) hours total time, private pilot or
better, 15 hours dual instruction in make and model to solo, and a huge
bill for mediocre coverage. The honest truth is that you can't be a
qualified tailwheel instructor with 15 tailwheel hours. Those low time
instructors of yesteryear who taught in Champs and Cubs ALL had 200+
hours tailwheel time and had passed checkrides in taildraggers
themselves.

Flight schools are quick to blame the insurance, but the real problem
is they are unwilling to do what it takes to attract and retain
qualified tailwheel instructors.

That means one of the new planes which seem to
have a base price of 80,000 buckeroos.

Something is severely wrong here.

When I was in the Keys a few months ago, I met a guy who does lessons
(officially, really they are usually rides) in a 2-seat floatplane
ultralight trainer. He says it does just fine getting off the water in
the Florida heat with two big people. It has a Rotax engine, and it is
open cockpit with a dacron-covered wing, but it's a three axis machine,
not a trike. He bought it new, ready to fly (not a kit) for under
$25,000 two years ago, straight from the factory. It also exists in a
landplane form, which is cheaper.

My understanding is that the whole point of Sport Pilot was that such
aircraft could be sold as LSA's, for general non-commercial (except
instruction) use, not as ultralight trainers for instruction only. In
its landplane configuration, it would be a perfectly serviceable
general purpose three axis sport pilot trainer or pleasure craft. Any
garden variety CFI could instruct in it. So what happened?

I suspect that the process the FAA claimed was going to be easy for
manufacturers is still bad enough that it winds up doubling or tripling
the cost of the aircraft. That would be typical. In fact, I will only
believe otherwise if I see those two-seat ultralight trainers selling
as LSA's for no more than 10% more than they cost as UL trainers.

Michael

My "base price of 80,000" applied to aircraft that looked more like
conventional aircraft...high or low wing, all metal or composite. Not
supersized ultralights, dacron covering, or revised classics.

I'm not sure, but I think some of them came with glass cockpits as
standard.

John

I spent alot of time in the LSA mall last week, some of those glass
cockpits are pretty cool. If you read the fine print, they may be an
option on some and not standard. I didn't get literature on every one,
just those I was interested in (ie-low wing).

Ryan