New CFI

My life's adventures have taught me that experience counts for a lot in
any endeavor that I can think of. That's especially true for CFIs. Ones
that can't teach or don't really know some of the finer points can hold
you back. Remember that some young CFIs don't even have 300 hrs. They
have gotten good at training for the ratings and have very little actual
experience. Another point is that you, having no experience, won't
necessarily know if you are getting good instruction or not. I would
always go with the experienced instructor who also has some good
recommendations, since experience alone doesn't mean good instruction
either.


Mediacom wrote:
Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
him. I'm just interested in any feedback.

Thanks!

Jeremy

If a CFI has hair and it isn't grey, keep looking.

Yah, I know, that's an unsupportable generalization. Somewhere
out there, along with Bigfoot and Nessie, there's a 20-something
with 252 hours who can do a great job on teaching you to fly. But
to get all my metaphores hopelessly confused, you'll have to kiss
a lot of frogs before the genie pops out of that particular lamp.

Find an older guy, preferably one who teaches as a hobby or as a
retirement project. Unless you really do live out in Bigfoot country,
it's all but certain that there is someone like that at some airfield
you can easily get to. It'll just take some legwork to find the right
match.

Nothing said here should be taken to mean that ALL old guys are good
instructors. Odds are, though, someone who has seen it all over the
course of decades knows more and is better at communicating it than
is the archetypal condescending punk who thinks he's on his way to a
fabulous airline career, once his days of suffering through the likes
of you are put paid.

I couldn't disagree more. When I got my PPSEL I had two instructors one with
grey hair and one with very little. They were both great instructors. Over
the years I've flown with many other instructors old and young and never saw
any correlation between age and instruction skill. On the On the other hand
when I got my PP R-H I had a twenty one year old kid from Germany who was
over here building hours. He was without a doubt the best instructor I've
ever flown with. He was a much better instructor than his boss who had x000
hours flying medivac and his boss would agree.

Over the years I've flown with many other instructors old and young and good
and bad never saw any correlation between age and instruction skill. The
young ones that were below average were usually that way because of lack of
experience. The older ones who were below average were that way because they
were so set in their ways and wouldn't change with a gun to their head.
Experience can be earned but asshole goes all the way to the bone.

The worst instructor I ever had was probably the best pilot but he couldn't
teach worth a crap.


"xxx" wrote in message
oups.com...
If a CFI has hair and it isn't grey, keep looking.

Yah, I know, that's an unsupportable generalization. Somewhere
out there, along with Bigfoot and Nessie, there's a 20-something
with 252 hours who can do a great job on teaching you to fly. But
to get all my metaphores hopelessly confused, you'll have to kiss
a lot of frogs before the genie pops out of that particular lamp.

Find an older guy, preferably one who teaches as a hobby or as a
retirement project. Unless you really do live out in Bigfoot country,
it's all but certain that there is someone like that at some airfield
you can easily get to. It'll just take some legwork to find the right
match.

Nothing said here should be taken to mean that ALL old guys are good
instructors. Odds are, though, someone who has seen it all over the
course of decades knows more and is better at communicating it than
is the archetypal condescending punk who thinks he's on his way to a
fabulous airline career, once his days of suffering through the likes
of you are put paid.

I'm glad it worked out for you. There isn't one answer that fits
every pilot and every flight instructor all the time and in every
place.

As for me, I've had quite enough of blowing $150 or so to give fair
chances to green kids. My experiences with airline pilot wannabes are
almost entirely negative. My experiences with part-time instructors
who are accomplished professionals in some other field have been far
far better.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. When I got my PPSEL I had two instructors one with
grey hair and one with very little.

Mt primary CFI was brand new, and not a "double I". I was his third
student. I was the first student he sent to solo, and the first to get
his license. He told me this later, of course.

I had no idea how he rated until after he moved on and I took IFR
lessons with someone else. It turned out that he was one of the most
able instructors I've ever encountered. His inexperience wasn't a
factor. He knew more about IFR flying than 5 of the CFII's I fired
after him.

There may be nothing wrong with a new CFI, depending on who taught him.
Obviously, experience has to be worth something and if they both charge
the same rate then go with the more experienced one.

So ya just opened up a whole rats nest.
Whatever anyone tells you, someone else will disagree.
So I'm not offering any advice at all - just asking a question


Do you want an experienced CFI, or a green as grass CFI?
It's a free world - and you may indeed decide that it is your lot to pay
for the early training of new, green behind the ears CFI - or you may
decide that your hard earned and limited funds are better spent on a
proven experienced CFI. It's up to you - I'm going to get **** for even
raising the doubt

Do what feels best - you don't owe anyone anything!

Tony
C-GICE

In article JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72,
"Mediacom" wrote:

Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
him. I'm just interested in any feedback.

Thanks!

Jeremy




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Do you want an experienced CFI, or a green as grass CFI?

The answer is obvious, all other things being equal. But all other
things are not equal; in fact the mere difference in experience makes
some things unequal in ways that counteract the obvious.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Y'All,
Into my first flying lesson I brought a life time of reading and interest in
aviation. I had made model aircraft and ships most of my life. I could
identify most flying and non-flying aircraft since the Wrights. In WWII I
had learned electronics, how to read a chart, use an E6-B and navigate. I
had taught LORAN navigation and radar bombardment as a corporal on
simulators to the most unwilling group imaginable. Officers who resented
learning a new way to navigate or bomb using electronics prone to
operational failure.

I went on after the war and college to teach retarded and learning disabled
children. I find that teaching is much the same regardless of the situation
and subject. Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who can't do
eitrher administrate.

I was a student pilot at age 42. I was my first instructor's first solo. I
went on to another new instructor and became his first private pilot. I
became a ground school instructor when the class instructor suggested that I
take over his program. I taught the program for six years. I was the first
commercial pilot of my next instructor. I was my next instructors first
CFI. I was my next instructors first instrument pilot and my next
instructors first CFII rated instructor.

I became a flight instructor to get even. I tried harder to do a good
instructional job with my first student than ever since. I was very
fortunate in not having to study for or pass the instructional side of the
flight instructor's program. As a credential certified teacher I was
exempt. I would never have passed the test. 99% educational garbage theory
finally discarded a few years ago..

My instrucional program is still based upon the little spiral FAA guide of
some 32 lessons that I used in my training. Upon that base I have added
several essentials that have made a recognizable difference in my students.

First requirement is area familiarization and directional knowledge. Second
requirement is using the first requirement to know what to say and when to
say it on the radio. Third requirement is being able to put your aircraft
where you want it, when you want it there and at the exact speed and
configuration best for the situation. All the rest is frosting and I do
teach the frosting at every opportunity.
Gene Whitt

Hey all-

Well, sorry for any bags of worms that were opened on account of my original
post. :-)

I thought I would update the post now that I have a little more information.
I spoke with this new flight instructor today for about 20 minutes. It
turns out he is instrument rated (not CFII), high altitude and complex as
well. He has actually flown off and on for 25 years. He just recently
decided that life is too short to waste doing something you don't want to do
and decided to get his CFI and start flight training full time. He is just
about to get his CFII. Obviously I still don't really know him but after
talking with him I am comfortable enough to give it a shot. After all, as
you all (and the instructor) have pointed out, I can always change
instructors if I don't feel like it is working out. So....I am off. My
first lesson will be in a couple weeks. I will check back as things
progress.

I really do appreciate all the input that everyone puts into these
newsgroups.

Cya-

Jeremy



"Mediacom" wrote in message
news:JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72...
Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the
day I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made
a trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is
and more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It
turns out that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules
mainly because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI
that might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I
talk to a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few
months ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any
advice on starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1.
That he will be hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because
he will not want them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a
more experienced pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me
miss out on some wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs
have to start with a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to
taking up lessons with him. I'm just interested in any feedback.

Thanks!

Jeremy